He is but doesn't care.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)
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He is but doesn't care.
UKIP have already said their sole aim was fo see their jobs redundant. Martyrs to the cause.
Cameron has said he will stay. I think if 36.X vote to stay by the same token as the Tories the in votes will win
UKIP have already said their sole aim was fo see their jobs redundant. Martyrs to the cause.
Cameron has said he will stay. I think if 36.X vote to stay by the same token as the Tories the in votes will win
UKIP won't just disappear, it will rebrand and come back you can't just say job done when some voting intentions polls show them 18%+.
Also I lost count how many seats they came 2nd in, more than a protest party now it's filled the gap of centre right.
Tories and Labour (until recently) wete completely interchangeable literally different colours. Now labour have gone further Left and tories kept the centre.
Thats my 2p on it anyway
Soldato
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The timing of national elections may not be as kind as it was for the SNP, but is it not possible a narrow Leave loss might be enough to strengthen UKIP further after all if you want to Leave only some form of UKIP representation stands any chance of delivering it. The Conservatives could be hideously split following this campaign and Corbyn is doing his absolute utmost to make Labour unelectable.
Maybe UKIP will die but I think the part of the party whom the Conservatives eschewed will form a solid rump that is not going back. Whilst Labour falters UKIP is better placed than many to appeal to the working class protest vote.
Maybe UKIP will die but I think the part of the party whom the Conservatives eschewed will form a solid rump that is not going back. Whilst Labour falters UKIP is better placed than many to appeal to the working class protest vote.
Oh yes I agree. They are the third largest party now. Its just a pity at the last election democracy was usurped
. However having said that a UKIP Tory alliance would have been catastrophic for the nation imo.Without voting reforms though UKIP stand little chance of making real contention.
Labour have a lit of in fighting sadly. Corbyn is ridiculed from in front and behind, even by prominent figures in the party. People forget he was elected by the largest surge of any party in UK history.
Its not that he is making it unelectable, the media have him in their cross hairs and his own party of Tory stooges are essentially making their own gunpowder plot against him.
Corbyn has views. As I have said repeatedly on here, you only have to look at the mentality and histrionics when he stands up at PMQT sessions. Its watching playground bullies have their fun and him still sticking the honest game. In politics that unfortunately doesn't get you very far.
Its just a pity at the last election democracy was usurped
How so?
36.X% = party majority for one
4m votes = 1MP
1m votes = 8MPs
Even worse in Scotland, the SNP picked up everything didn't they? So large swathes of people were cast off. That's not democracy.
On this subject, the following appeared on my twitter feed today. The source is a column from The Times, of course, annoyingly behind a paywall
I think that's right, gotta love the Tories at times though, bonding with the working classes with references to the French Revolution. Sans-culottes indeed!
So what you are saying is the UKIP are terrible at securing seats and have a ver poor unfocused approach compared to other parties like the LDs.
Nome of that supports a problem with the democratic systwm, just an inability of the UKIP
Your post makes no sense at all. You're literally on one hand saying there's no problem with our Democratic system, but then on the other hand stating that UKIP should've some how got more votes in a single area. That's sort of the problem mate.
The amount of MPs should reflect (roughly) how many votes a party got, our system doesn't do that. It shouldn't be down to parties to ignore large swathes of the country so they can get votes in a specific area. So yes, it is a problem with our democratic system.
Soldato
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So how do you achieve that outcome without completely changing the entire system of Government? You'd have to get rid of Constituency MPs for a start...unless you're saying some constituencies should have their MPs elected for them by the lucky losers (in this case UKIP) system so they can make up the numbers in parliament to more accurately reflect the popular vote.
Lots of people say stuff like how Parliament should be more proportional, very few actually think it through.
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So why is the EU blatantly bribing Turkey to do their dirty work and hold back the migrants? And in turn leaving themselves open to blackmail from Turkey for demanding Visa free EU travel? Seems the EU are happily able to deal with such a none democratic country when it suits them....
Nice cop out.
The whole leave argument appears to be based on fear. A fear of the EU having "stolen" our sovereignty and planning on stealing more, this being a referendum on a federal Europe, a migration crisis and the settling of refugees in Europe, Turkey potentially joining the EU at some point in the future causing us to be over run with more immigrants etc. Heck, just look a few posts up, now apparently the EU is planning on stealing the NHS...
No. Democracy is about representation. We don't have a true reflection of this. In fact its not even close really other than one thing that the FPTP system ensures is that party with most votes wins. Its quite probably the weakest form of democracy.
My college Tutor always used to say our democracy is not a good version of it.
UKIP aren't terrible though. They have risen through the ranks and even crushed the lib dems out of 3rd place. If democracy was to be adhered to 32 UKIP MPs would now hold incumbency.
+1 Roar87
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Nice cop out.
The whole leave argument appears to be based on fear. A fear of the EU having "stolen" our sovereignty and planning on stealing more, this being a referendum on a federal Europe, a migration crisis and the settling of refugees in Europe, Turkey potentially joining the EU at some point in the future causing us to be over run with more immigrants etc. Heck, just look a few posts up, now apparently the EU is planning on stealing the NHS...
And when you have voted to stay in & they do steal our NHS & lots more it'll be too late to do anything cause we'll be shackled to the cesspit eu forever.
Look at the mess europe is in. If we wasn't in already would you even consider joining a migrant laden hell hole?
Soldato
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Another one citing the virtues of PR without saying how they could achieve it without completely re-inventing all levels of Government.
How exactly would you ensure that if Party A got 10% of the popular vote but only won 1 seat, how do you 'give' them the other 60 odd seats you think they should have?
What happens to the 60 odd MPs that won their local elections that you are now taking away to give to MPs that didn't?
How does a proportional house of commons actually work????
Nice cop out.
The whole leave argument appears to be based on fear. A fear of the EU having "stolen" our sovereignty and planning on stealing more, this being a referendum on a federal Europe, a migration crisis and the settling of refugees in Europe, Turkey potentially joining the EU at some point in the future causing us to be over run with more immigrants etc. Heck, just look a few posts up, now the EU is planning on stealing the NHS...
Its not a cop out at all. Evidence here is like throwing a chocolate kettle in the fire. The reason behind this is nobody knows. Fact, conjecture call it what you will.
Oh my god. Talk about selective reading. I take I you get all your news from the UK Propaganda Ministry t/a BBC?
The remain camp have given broadsides on to name a few:
-nobody will trade with us
-we cannot do our own deals
-each and every household will be 4300 worse off
-leaving could ignite another European war
-3million jobs are at stake
-we will lose tariffs on mobile phones (for the infinitely dull to worry about)
-we lose access to the biggest markets
-Russia will be more likely to attack
-ISIS want us to leave
-we will be on our own
-we will have no say
-America will make us back of the line Obama!!!
-the economy will contract by 8% but it did less than that in the recession
I could continue. The in camp is the Project Fear. The out camp tries to raise points on what we could do out of Europe. But on every political front (almost) and most media fronts they are getting shot down with stupid and incessant non-related garbage.
It will be threats of alien invasions next.
The fact is that Leave can counter points (specific), but the remain camp can only retort with fear based on the current status quo.
Example:
Leave: "We can make our own trade deals like Iceland, Norway etc, the world will be our Oyster"
Remain: "But nobody is going to trade with us if we leave"
Leave: "Were you listening to what I just this second said?"
From the other way:
Remain: "If we leave trade will be difficult to negotiate and we can't get our trade running which affects the economy"
Leave: "How about we set up our own trade deals then, on our terms to the benefit of our people"
Remain: "But we can't"
Leave: "If you can't lets employ or get people in office who can"
You throw me a reason to stay and I will give you a retort. Try it
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