Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Amp34]

Its not a cop out at all. Evidence here is like throwing a chocolate kettle in the fire. The reason behind this is nobody knows. Fact, conjecture call it what you will.

Oh my god. Talk about selective reading. I take I you get all your news from the UK Propaganda Ministry t/a BBC?

The remain camp have given broadsides on to name a few:
-nobody will trade with us
-we cannot do our own deals
-each and every household will be 4300 worse off
-leaving could ignite another European war
-3million jobs are at stake
-we will lose tariffs on mobile phones (for the infinitely dull to worry about)
-we lose access to the biggest markets
-Russia will be more likely to attack
-ISIS want us to leave
-we will be on our own
-we will have no say
-America will make us back of the line Obama!!!
-the economy will contract by 8% but it did less than that in the recession

I could continue. The in camp is the Project Fear. The out camp tries to raise points on what we could do out of Europe. But on every political front (almost) and most media fronts they are getting shot down with stupid and incessant non-related garbage.

It will be threats of alien invasions next.

The fact is that Leave can counter points (specific), but the remain camp can only retort with fear based on the current status quo.

Example:
Leave: "We can make our own trade deals like Iceland, Norway etc, the world will be our Oyster"
Remain: "But nobody is going to trade with us if we leave"
Leave: "Were you listening to what I just this second said?"

From the other way:
Remain: "If we leave trade will be difficult to negotiate and we can't get our trade running which affects the economy"
Leave: "How about we set up our own trade deals then, on our terms to the benefit of our people"
Remain: "But we can't"
Leave: "If you can't lets employ or get people in office who can"

You throw me a reason to stay and I will give you a retort. Try it

You're obviously reading media outlets prone to hyperbole, and with those blinkers you are wearing I'm surprised you can see to type.

It's late, I'm tired and this discussion has been had time and time again with vocal leave campaigners just entirely ignoring any valid points. I just don't understand how you can reall argue that when we have have 3 months of people claiming all of the above time and time again in this thread. Just look at the reply I replied to in the post above this. How do you not see this?

 

[Amp34]

Wow, where do we begin on the remain fear train then?

War, pensions, holiday costs, food costs, unemployment, less household money, terrorism, house prices, recession, increased austerity, lower growth, marriage breakdown (?).

That's to name just a few off the top of my head from the past few weeks.

Time and time again I've pointed out its BOTH sides... But as I've again pointed out multiple times much of the clamour on most of those points above is caused by hyperbole from the news pieces you read (assuming a mix/combination including the telegraph, mirror and sun...). Much of the other stuff is based on actual data and analysis by dozens/hundreds of organisations and professionals, which many leave campaigners just brush aside claiming "paid for by the EU". It's almost funny (if it wasn't so tragic) that several people in here have almost come out to explain that they prefer anecdotal evidence to properly researched and presented data/facts.

I just hope the majority of the population aren't as blinkered and poorly opinionated* as many in this thread.

* I.e. Ignoring legitimate data and facts because it doesn't conform to their viewpoint. I have no issue with an oposing opinion, but you NEED to back it up with facts, rather than anecdote and hyperbole.

 

[Amp34]

I'm not arguing against PR, just the idea that all we need to do is teak the voting system to get proportionality when you've had to completely change the whole system.

So to get PR, we'd have to forfeit the local representation of the constituency MP system. We'd also be using a system where no one was actually personally elected, the party [they currently align with] won the vote and they just got picked because they are popular with the party chairman.

Those are two huge changes to make to our system

How many people actually vote for their MP rather than put a tick next to the candidate with the parties name you want in power? I'd wager not many in the grand scheme of things. It's one of the reasons there are so few independent MPs.

Just doling out MPs to a specific constituency after a PR vote would do just as good a job for the majority of constituencies. Done right most constituencies would probably get an MP from the party most voted for anyway.

 

[Amp34]

EU's European Commission enlists help of Big Tech to curb online 'hate speech'. Hmm, anyone else worried about this? What is the definition of hate speech, can it be interpreted for anything else other than the use it was intended for? Isn't our right to freedom of expression enshrined in the Human Rights Act?

Tbh I doubt they could make as much of a hash of it as our government has!

 

[Amp34]

If you still want to vote to remain after watching that your an idiot.

"It's not being presented to us in exactly those terms because..." It's a completely wrong analogy.

 

[Amp34]

Ignore.

 

[scorza]

That's quite a prediction, you already know what will happen in 2 generations?

Even in an event of exit if the EU and Russia do end up at war do you really think UK would not get involved in some way? As a member of NATO I'd imagine it would be very much involved.

Ohhh and I thought only the remain campaign was using a possibility of war as a scare tactic.

Saying there's going to be an EU-Russian war in future is scaremongering, but saying that in future there's going to be an EU Army is not - it's a prediction based on current developments within the EU and stated aims by EU bureaucrats e.g Jean-Claude Juncker. An EU Army would have some pretty profound questions for the NATO alliance, that can't be denied.

You also can't deny the threats made to EU member states from Russia. It's probably just sabre-rattling, but who knows with Putin.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Record number of jobless EU migrants in Britain: Hammer blow for PM as 270,000 EU nationals came here last year

Figures showed the total number of EU nationals coming here under freedom-of-movement rules hit 270,000 last year
This included a record 77,000 migrants who came without the offer of a job
Net EU migration – taking into account the number of EU citizens who left the UK – was 184,000, equivalent to a town the size of Colchester
The PM has promised to stop EU nationals coming here looking for work, but backed down in the face of opposition from Brussels


Source:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-blow-PM-270-000-EU-nationals-came-year.html

 

[EddScott]

You also can't deny the threats made to EU member states from Russia. It's probably just sabre-rattling, but who knows with Putin.

Playing to the locals. Putin isn't stupid and knows his people and what they want. He also knows in a fight the Russian army is a shadow of its former glory. He's got it pretty sweet so unlikely to throw that out the window for the sake of conquest.

 

[The_Abyss]

Time for the final poll now that we're in June?

 

[McBain]

Time and time again I've pointed out its BOTH sides... But as I've again pointed out multiple times much of the clamour on most of those points above is caused by hyperbole from the news pieces you read (assuming a mix/combination including the telegraph, mirror and sun...). Much of the other stuff is based on actual data and analysis by dozens/hundreds of organisations and professionals, which many leave campaigners just brush aside claiming "paid for by the EU". It's almost funny (if it wasn't so tragic) that several people in here have almost come out to explain that they prefer anecdotal evidence to properly researched and presented data/facts.
.

No, your initial comment always seems to be 'Brexit are project fear' and then when there's a reply to it you say 'It's both sides'. Yes, there's fear on both sides of the argument, can't say I disagree, but one side is dominating the field.

It's virtually every day i'm waking up to a new article on the BBC about how much less money i'm going to have if I vote leave.

 

[George Hincapie]

Can we have a new poll for June please Mods?

 

[George Hincapie]

Time and time again you say there's fear on both sides of the argument, can't say I disagree, but one side is dominating the field.

It's virtually every day i'm waking up to a new article on the BBC about how much less money i'm going to have if I vote leave.

New poll released yesterday indicates Leave campaign winning.

 

[McBain]

New poll released yesterday indicates Leave campaign winning.

I don't see it personally, i'm fully expecting those on the fence to vote remain. Bookies are rarely wrong and i'm inclined to follow what they're saying over polls.

Quite honestly it's getting boring now, the same arguments from both sides are constantly repeated. My vote is already in so not sure why I keep coming in here, I guess travelling is more boring than reading the same old guff

 

[XeNoN89]

I don't believe any of these polls to be honest. Whatever happens I think it will be close. 1 or 2 % in it i reckon.

 

[George Hincapie]

I don't see it personally, i'm fully expecting those on the fence to vote remain. Bookies are rarely wrong and i'm inclined to follow what they're saying over polls.

Quite honestly it's getting boring now, the same arguments from both sides are constantly repeated. My vote is already in so not sure why I keep coming in here, I guess travelling is more boring than reading the same old guff

I am still undecided. I always vote leave in the OCUK poll, but that's just me being cantankerous. I don't know how I'll vote on the day.

 

[MookJong]

I was undecided last month but leaning towards leave again now.

The sovereignty issue seems to be brushed off by many on the remain side but for me this is the heart of the matter. If you can't control your own policy then all other arguments are pointless.

Our democracy may be a thin vainer but it is absolutely worth holding onto every last bit of it.

 

[Johno please?]

Good old Pat.

 

[platypus]

EU's European Commission enlists help of Big Tech to curb online 'hate speech'. Hmm, anyone else worried about this? What is the definition of hate speech, can it be interpreted for anything else other than the use it was intended for? Isn't our right to freedom of expression enshrined in the Human Rights Act?

I'm far more worried about the Snoopers charter than social media curbing free speech.

Whilst I value free speech as an inalienable right, access to social media isn't, nor is the freedom to say whatever you want on their services. You agree to their terms and conditions when signing up, after all.

 

[kitkat2015]

I'm far more worried about the Snoopers charter.

Not when it suites the eu for it not to be. A holes