Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Insanties_birth]

Perhaps you haven’t noticed yet, but the most zealous of the remainers are a bit maladjusted.

hehe, is it THAT noticeable? I thought I was the only one in on the secret

seriously though, there's always one group worse than the others and then a bunch of liars and apologists for that group. There has been way more anger and spite from one side but lets brush it under the rug for now as they're behaving a little better than usual and the mods aren't really scrubbing any bile up anyway.

 

[Tosno]

Keep typing, Tosno. What will change upon Brexit in the EEA or under EFTA? There's nothing stopping May throwing out the ECHR entirely now, as it is, made very plain in her interventions on the referendum -- a shocking prospect but true.

Why is it tied to your dislike of the EU?

Thank you, I will

As for your question (don't want Avenged7Fold getting restless again ) if we free ourselves from the chains of the EU and throw it bin (where it belongs) with cameron, we can even make sure foreigners have to earn at least £18,600 to live in Britain with their spouses, not only British citizens.

 

[Judgeneo]

The new £18,600 rule (which I passed for my wife) applies to British spouses. Me as a British citizen that wants to live in Britain with my non EU wife have to earn at least £18,600 to bring my wife to Britain (if I earned less, I would be denied a family life in Britain) and pay £1000 for a visa. However if I was a German citizen (or any other EU citizen for that matter) I could bring my non EU citizen wife to Britain for free and it doesn't matter if I only earn 18p a year, plus she can claim all benefits, whereas mine can not for 30 months.

This annoys me so much. I'm in a very similar position at the moment, getting a partner visa for my Chinese GF, yet we have friends from the continent that have brought their non-EU partners over to the UK at next to no cost and minimal fuss.

Its simply not fair.

 

[datalol-jack]

Thank you, I will

As for your question (don't want Avenged7Fold getting restless again ) if we free ourselves from the chains of the EU and throw it bin (where it belongs) with cameron, we can even make sure foreigners have to earn at least £18,600 to live in Britain with their spouses, not only British citizens.

So you basically want the UK financial requirement to apply to everyone? Fine, how can you achieve this under the EEA or EFTA T&Cs?

 

[datalol-jack]

This annoys me so much. I'm in a very similar position at the moment, getting a partner visa for my Chinese GF, yet we have friends from the continent that have brought their non-EU partners over to the UK at next to no cost and minimal fuss.

Its simply not fair.

On this part, Theresa giveth, Theresa taketh away.

 

[Judgeneo]

So you basically want the UK financial requirement to apply to everyone? Fine, how can you achieve this under the EEA or EFTA T&Cs?

We won't be bound to those.

No brexiter is saying we will have "Access to the single market", we will have a free trade deal. No more, no less.

 

[Amp34]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ttip-leaks-shocking-what-are-they-eu-us-deal-a7010121.html

Thats a whole lot of words to say basically nothing.

Anyone know an article that actually discusses and explains what is in those 13 chapters..?

 

[datalol-jack]

We won't be bound to those.

No brexiter is saying we will have "Access to the single market", we will have a free trade deal. No more, no less.

And you know this by being the government and the Commission at the same time? Or did Cummings have more of his 'informal chats'? You know my opinion on 'special deals' -- it's a pipe dream.

 

[Tosno]

So you basically want the UK financial requirement to apply to everyone? Fine, how can you achieve this under the EEA or EFTA T&Cs?

I don't agree with the new financial requirement at all, but I disagree with only British citizens paying it even more, when there is much more risk from EU scammers than our own. The EU will never change it's fundamental of free movement, so that leaves only one option.

 

[ReltonBFD]

And you know this by being the government and the Commission at the same time? Or did Cummings have more of his 'informal chats'? You know my opinion on 'special deals' -- it's a pipe dream.

Are you purposely being dense?

you've repeated the above countless times. A weak UK economy will have massive repercussions on the EU economy, it will effect every single one of them.

It's simply not in their interest to have a weak UK trade deal which will mean weak Trade between the two.

Vote Leave, if your on the fence just read the ****e Fox and densejack have posted.

 

[datalol-jack]

I don't agree with the new financial requirement at all, but I disagree with only British citizens paying it even more, when there is much more risk from EU scammers than our own. The EU will never change it's fundamental of free movement, so that leaves only one option.

What are the relative risks and do you have the figures?

What's stopping you petitioning our great democracy against this new and uneven Home Office policy now, if reform at home is easier to achieve, and you do support universal human rights?

What is the probability of the EU surrendering one of its fundamental freedoms in negotiations, to what deal and what price, and is it worth it?

Obviously, you know what the Treasury thinks:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f1956eb6-054d-11e6-a70d-4e39ac32c284.html

 

[stewski]

Are you purposely being dense?

you've repeated the above countless times. A weak UK economy will have massive repercussions on the EU economy, it will effect every single one of them.

It's simply not in their interest to have a weak UK trade deal which will mean weak Trade between the two.

Vote Leave, if your on the fence just read the ****e Fox and densejack have posted.

name calling? Seems a little weak in discussion terms.

 

[ReltonBFD]

Name calling, I'll expect a ban then...

 

[datalol-jack]

Are you purposely being dense?

you've repeated the above countless times. A weak UK economy will have massive repercussions on the EU economy, it will effect every single one of them.

It's simply not in their interest to have a weak UK trade deal which will mean weak Trade between the two.

Vote Leave, if your on the fence just read the ****e Fox and densejack have posted.

I'm of the view that the deal we will get will be the fullest possible EEA membership with freedom of movement, which minimises the damage to our and global economy the most. It's not hard to understand what the Treasury view is.

Tosno thinks we will sacrifice this to bring spousal treatment to parity in a bi-lateral deal.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Are you purposely being dense?

you've repeated the above countless times. A weak UK economy will have massive repercussions on the EU economy, it will effect every single one of them.

It's simply not in their interest to have a weak UK trade deal which will mean weak Trade between the two.

Vote Leave, if your on the fence just read the ****e Fox and densejack have posted.

Why can't we discuss this without insulting each other? I get that it's an emotive subject but throwing mud is a waste of time. If you believe my views are ****, then criticise them and demonstrate why they are wrong. If you are right, then you'll educate others and increase the case for Brexit. That's the point in debate.

 

[Mr Jack]

This annoys me so much. I'm in a very similar position at the moment, getting a partner visa for my Chinese GF, yet we have friends from the continent that have brought their non-EU partners over to the UK at next to no cost and minimal fuss.

Its simply not fair.

It really is disgusting policy from the Tories.

 

[datalol-jack]

It really is disgusting policy from the Tories.

I'd stay in the EU and fight for equal treatment. But that's just me.

 

[ReltonBFD]

We've had the debate the 2nd and 3rd threads, great a lot of information in it from both sides.

It's tedious now, it's the same repeated over and over just worked differently.

I haven't posted a while but I've read what you two the most prominent remain posters and you ask question, Get answers, then ask the same question.

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's the same on both sides isn't it - with the absence of anything fresh or new then the same points will be continually raised and discussed. I'd imagine it was the same in the Scottish referendum thread

It should, hopefully, be enjoyable (and perhaps informative/amusing to others?) to chew the issues around with people who have the opposing view. If it isn't, then why are we bothering?

 

[datalol-jack]

We've had the debate the 2nd and 3rd threads, great a lot of information in it from both sides.

It's tedious now, it's the same repeated over and over just worked differently.

I haven't posted a while but I've read what you two the most prominent remain posters and you ask question, Get answers, then ask the same question.

Perhaps because the plan for Brexit still appears to be formed in at least three separate heads, not written down or communicated with any clarity and in strong deviation from anything remotely official?

Much seems to hinge on the particular prejudices of the audience, and they're all things to all men. This obviously won't work. The undecided will ask for something more than: good luck, fair weather and crossed fingers. If this is not supplied, I'm not seeing a great outcome for Leave.

It's the same on both sides isn't it - with the absence of anything fresh or new then the same points will be continually raised and discussed. I'd imagine it was the same in the Scottish referendum thread

It should, hopefully, be enjoyable (and perhaps informative/amusing to others?) to chew the issues around with people who have the opposing view. If it isn't, then why are we bothering?

My take is really simple.

Disabuse people of the notion that refugees magically get rights that they do not. That the migration crisis goes away with Brexit. And point out that there are no free lunches to be had by quitting the EU, in whatever guise they may be presented.

On marriage specifically, show that the unfairness of the current arrangement for regular non-EU spouses is purely political, and can be reversed without quitting the EU; since I think freedom of movement is worth keeping, and we shouldn't ditch universal human rights in general, because then the unfairness of treatment of individuals will only increase not decrease.

Lastly, where confidence of a 'special deal' is present, ask for the Brexit premises of that confidence.