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So all newspapers talk clap trap? I think not.
Your just surmising.
When have voted to remain & this country dies a slow painful death I hope all you IN vote will be so very proud of yourselves.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)
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So all newspapers talk clap trap? I think not.
Your just surmising.
When have voted to remain & this country dies a slow painful death I hope all you IN vote will be so very proud of yourselves.
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The viciousness seems to be more on the part of those who wish to see the UK remain in the EU. Talk of cretins, right minded people not reading two of the most popular and awarded newspapers on sale, ignorant, incapable of understanding, on and on the insults fly. Smacks of sour grapes that not everyone wants the Nirvana you see in integration, and the university brainwashing some seem to have enjoyed is not shared by as many as was perhaps expected 
It's talking about TTIP - which if you read many posts in this thread, and in the TTIP thread you will educate yourself about what it is about - and killing off the NHS is not one of those things
So, no I am not surmising, I am just not believing every sensationalist bit of clap trap that come along, and take many points of view to get a more balanced outlook, unlike other people.
Associate
I think all of us out voters should just wallow in our cretinous, idiotic, stupid lives and come back after June 23rd with shouts of joy or apoplectic with cretinous, stupid, idiotic rage.
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If only, I fear that the IN vote will win cause there all so blinkered & easily led.
Just read this thread & it proves it's point.
Rubbish, the insults fly unabaited from both sides
Because it does seem a disproportionate number of Brexiteers on these forums do come over as cretins, which is a shame for that side of the argument, as the people who do put forward a sensible argument get dragged down by those who seem to struggle to tie their shoelaces.
The Sun is the most widely read newspaper in the Country, that doesn't mean it's articles aren't utter tripe with a reading age of 8 and not somewhere where you want to be linking up to support your argument on complex political matters
Well, when the same rubbish, that is easily debunked by themselves with 5 seconds of googling keeps getting regurgitated time and time again as 'evidence' then yes, the inference is they are ignorant and incapable of understanding, or learning new things.
on and on the insults fly. Smacks of sour grapes that not everyone wants the Nirvana you see in integration, and the university brainwashing some seem to have enjoyed is not shared by as many as was perhaps was expected
Chip on the shoulder about University educated people? Universities "Brainwash" people now do they? lol
Or do neither and just accept whatever the outcome with grace and aplomb?
Associate
Is that the same as the immigration figures where it was "proven" to us by a quick googling that the immigration figures from outside the EU were higher than from the EU.
http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/444
I posted that link in the last thread and nobody from either side picked up on it. Now I know, how do I know these figures are true? I don't. Same for every single figure spewed out continuously by the remain camp. Now. I'm not blaming anyone on this forum for the figures they put forward but I personally cannot trust anything that comes out of the remain camp as I feel the figures are bound to be skewed as they have a vested interest. How can you trust the figures that come out of the leave camp? Simple, it's guess work, this has never been done before how are they supposed to know? But I have zero reason to believe we won't be better off outside of the EU and with some kind of trade agreement be it tariffed or not.
I will acknowledge it now then
In that it doesn't change the point that was being made at all. 'The non-EU migration being higher than EU' was only a technicality anyway, as it was only by a few thousand.
The point was Cameron always talked about bringing immigration down to the 'tens of thousands' which is picked up on the Brexiteers, because "we are full, no schools, roads, whatever and we can't do this because we are in the EU."
But if that was the case, and we are going to do this once we leave the EU, why then is non-EU immigration at 170,000 anyway?
The bit we do have control on, and it alone is still not 'tens of thousands'. It's because the people at the top, our Government, want immigration, no matter what soundbite they try to appease people with.And that's fine
This is becoming a more ideological standpoint and I respect your position far more because it's not based on "100% OUT!!!1111 coz of dem illegal immigrants all come here coz of EU to take all our jobs and benefits....at the same time!'" or various bits of cretinous clap trap that gets posted on here daily
Caporegime
Migration Watch UK and others on the Brexit side have been banging on about this for a while. Here's the ONS response on the difference in the figures, and the key quote:
Differences between the IPS and National Insurance Number statistics are not new and will not necessarily reflect a measurement problem with either source. They have been large historically when there are changes to the rules on migration, such as removing restrictions on which citizens can enter into the UK, as these can cause a change in migration behaviour that can have quite different impacts on the two sources at different times. The removal of restrictions on work for EU2 (Bulgarian and Romanian) citizens on 31/12/2013 is an example of such a change. The differences between the sources mentioned in 3.a-d are likely to explain all or a large proportion of the gap currently being noted in the figures.
Personally, I'm going to consider the ONS a more credible and neutral source than an anti-immigration pressure group.
Associate
I will acknowledge it now then
In that it doesn't change the point that was being made at all. 'The non-EU migration being higher than EU' was only a technicality anyway, as it was only by a few thousand.
The point was Cameron always talked about bringing immigration down to the 'tens of thousands' which is picked up on the Brexiteers, because "we are full, no schools, roads, whatever and we can't do this because we are in the EU."
But if that was the case, and we are going to do this once we leave the EU, why then is non-EU immigration at 170,000 anyway?
And that's fine
I did question the 170000 outside the EU at the time on a right to remain basis. How many of that figure are on student visas? Aussies working in bars for a year? The problem with the figures is there is no way of knowing from them who they are and what they are doing. If the 150000 from the EU were all Romanian potato farmers on minimum wage, entitled to WTC and housing benefits, and child benefit blah blah blah, I'd call that a problem. Sure we'd have loads of crisps but would they be making a net benefit to our economy? If they were 150000 nurses then it's all good. We just don't know.
Associate
That is your prerogative, I on the other hand will take the opposite view as it is government run and therefore I dispute that those figures can be trusted. After all they never lie and always do what they say they are going to do.......
Don
Polls are at 50:50 now. Interesting. It seems that the Obama effect only gave the remain camp a temporary boost.
Source: http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/
Source: http://whatukthinks.org/eu/opinion-polls/poll-of-polls/
Soldato
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Does anyone seriously believe the formation of the EU has anything to do with rarity of war in Europe in the last 30 years?
Why wasn't there a war between 1945-1993, 48 years of peace with no EU.
Conversely, what were the Balkans then if not a war in Europe?
It's comments like this that are steering me towards out. I have genuinely been wavering between in and out. But I am seeing so much animosity and fear mongering coming from the in group that it makes me wonder why they are so scared. If the out vote is so obviously wrong then there would be no fear. So if there is fear from the in group then there must be some merit in the out arguments. It certainly has me thinking about it.
Associate
Well said sir.
The roots of the EU go back a lot further than 1993 and there hasn't been a war in the Balkans since former Yugoslav states started joining the EU.
(Also, it might be a joke)
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