Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[VincentHanna]

The whole world doesn't have to conspire, they merely have to find it more profitable. They wouldn't care about our democratic or legal life, national sovereignity, whether we're happy with levels of migration etc. They care if they get trade and to that effect there arguments are a sign we'd be better off economically within the EU but others have suggested there's other reasons to be out and that we might even do perfectly fine economically out anyway. You have to consider why they recommend we stay, do you think they had a huge debate in japan about british sovereignity and judicial process before shinzo abe recommended we stay?

Japan warned in 2013 that is leaving the EU would mean less investment from them. It's not a new thing

 

[Insanties_birth]

Japan warned in 2013 that is leaving the EU would mean less investment from them. It's not a new thing

I'm not saying it is a new thing, just saying it's more than likely an economic recommendation (trade and business) rather than a real respect of all the other reasons to vote out. The japanese PM's recommendation along with the fact Japan is our second largest investor which has quite a few companies work within the UK was actually one of the more serious recommendations in my opinion. I felt it had more validity in my mind than Obama's recommendation so I respect it but it doesn't change that it's more an economic recommendation than anything else and I don't foresee them truly grasping or caring about the other implications.

 

[Tunney]

Alll pro-EU posts in this thread have been secretly bank-rolled by Goldman Sachs.

 

[Chris Wilson]

I doubt Goldman Sachs would even give many people on here a free pen <LOL>

 

[Amp34]

Here is what the EU plan as a robust guard against illegal immigrants, and people here suggest that no way will migrants into the EU be given special treatment. If this blatant attempt to circumvent basic law and order doesn't show how they plan on "handling"the migrant crisis I don't know what does:

"Meanwhile, the Council of Europe has warned that doctors, teachers, social workers and landlords should not report illegal immigrants to the Home Office because it would breach their human rights.

Its guidelines said ‘firewalls’ should be created to prevent them sharing with the immigration authorities details about failed asylum seekers or those who have sneaked in unlawfully.

If adopted, the recommendations would make it much more difficult for immigration enforcement teams to track down and remove illegals.
There has been little love lost between IDS and Sir John since, as a backbencher in the early 1990s, Mr Duncan Smith was one of a group of rebels who fought a long parliamentary campaign against the Major government's decision to sign up to the Maastricht Treaty


Analysts believe more than a million foreigners are here in the UK unlawfully. Measures introduced by the Government mean anyone accessing education, hospitals, social services, housing or work must have their immigration status checked.

Landlords who fail to check whether they are renting to illegal immigrants could face five years in jail and firms who employ illegals can be fined up to £2,000 a person.

But the anti-discrimination panel of the Council of Europe, the 47-nation parent body of the European Court of Human Rights, said yesterday that this would violate human rights laws.

A Home Office spokesman said: ‘The Home Office would not accept or support any recommendation which would bar public officials or private service providers from reporting suspected illegal immigrants.

‘There are specific arrangements in place for the Home Office to be notified where illegal immigrants seek access to benefits or local authority social services.’ "

Can someone clarify what this has to do with this thread? It has nothing to do with the EU. The council of Europe is a completely different organization as far as I'm aware.

I know a lot of people come over here SPECIFICALLY to either give birth or use the NHS for expensive treatments for existing known ailments, then go back again. And where is short term mooted to be just "a few weeks"? What about the ones who disappear into the black economy, the ones the EU are trying to legislate against our public services and private individuals reporting as illegal immigrants? They seem very concerned about them, some here would tell us they are very few in number...

What are the EU trying to legislate against? Not the above.

 

[Gux]

In a single post about there exclusion within a national debate that has a referendum in less than 2 months you called them idiots, muppets, incompetent, unprofessional, made the assumption they couldn't work together and called it a shambles. Based merely on a rational dislike they had of being excluded, you then attached that to all of them when some clearly rose above it. That is pretty knee jerk and over critical, I don't mind you having an opinion but next time David cameron has a slight tiff with one of his aids you won't find me slinging 5 or so different insults, smears and whatnot. Let's just level it off a little is all.

I'm supporting leave because I don't trust the current leader (not that it would be the only reason of course). That tired argument that you can't trust anyone in government just because you're suspicious of some is a bit too hyperbolic but currently there is a referendum going on as you might have noticed so whereas the government isn't all evil they are likely to be pushing a bit more biased / careful information out. Also was it boris johnson or the other conservatives in the out campaign that was stopping Cameron using the civil service? Was it them refusing to debate or having others sidelined from the national debate? Was it them pitching the battle by using public funds? Nope, was the other way around. So your argument falls a bit flat there, it's not really an all encompassing hatred of government but rather a rational respect of recent events and the fact we know the government of the day has chosen a pro EU stance and failed to be impartial within that stance so we have to take it with a pinch of salt. Sure Boris has a view too but has he been playing dirty and showing disregard for giving a fair debate to the public? Another point, wasn't it Cameron who regularly pitched himself as euro sceptic and said he'd get a lot of things resolved in the referendum that he didn't yet despite not getting that deal (and stating we wouldn't go ahead without it just a few months back) suddenly did a 180 and proved he'd lied about it?

I expected a level playing field in respect of fair democracy and an equal say on each side so the british public can reach there own conclusion but Cameron has a bit too much at stake I'm guessing. Your suspicions of Boris wanting the PM spot could be projected onto Cameron wanting a cosy spot within the EU or future political allies by keeping us in as well. I'm not here to debate the conspiracies but the obvious idea that it's tough to trust the government when they are no doubt going to not want to tell us the bad points and have shown a clear disrespect for having a level playing field within the debate shows a lack of earned trust.

As far as I know, ITV is an independent company and it is entirely up to them who they invite for their debates. Also Nigel Farage is actually the only political candidate who has been actually been consistent with his opinion regarding the EU, yet they now complain that he is on the debate

Gove & Boris are just another politicians with no consistency and change their positions depending what the popular opinion is. I don't remember hearing much from either Boris or Gove in the last 10 years arguing and pushing for a brexit. Now they come out of the woodwork and try to push back Farage, the actual person who actually pushed so much he got the government to give a referendum....

I wonder if we would have got a referendum if Farage didn't exist. I am sure Gove or Boris would have been vocal enough to get us one instead...oh wait.

And the Leave campaign is a shambles, they dismiss everything anyone says for Britain to remain, usually with the words "project fear", yet at the same time say we will swamped with immigrants, NHS will fail and terrorists bombs will be going off every where around us. Hmm sounds like a version of project fear to me...

Now on the news from Leave campaign that Mark Carney, should resign because he said there is a possibility of a recession(if we leave)...So much for freedom speech, the very same thing they are complain about the ITV for...

At the end of the day you should not listen to any side, because both of them are all about the propaganda. Listen to independent people from all around the world, who have very little to gain what ever the result. You will see they all seem to have a very similar view.

 

[Insanties_birth]

As far as I know, ITV is an independent company and it is entirely up to them who they invite for their debates. Also Nigel Farage is actually the only political candidate who has been actually been consistent with his opinion regarding the EU, yet they now complain that he is on the debate

Gove & Boris are just another politicians with no consistency and change their positions depending what the popular opinion is. I don't remember hearing much from either Boris or Gove in the last 10 years arguing and pushing for a brexit. Now they come out of the woodwork and try to push back Farage, the actual person who actually pushed so much he got the government to give a referendum....

I wonder if we would have got a referendum if Farage didn't exist. I am sure Gove or Boris would have been vocal enough to get us one instead...oh wait.

And the Leave campaign is a shambles, they dismiss everything anyone says for Britain to remain, usually with the words "project fear", yet at the same time say we will swamped with immigrants, NHS will fail and terrorists bombs will be going off every where around us. Hmm sounds like a version of project fear to me...

Now on the news from Leave campaign that Mark Carney, should resign because he said there is a possibility of a recession(if we leave)...So much for freedom speech, the very same thing they are complain about the ITV for...

At the end of the day you should not listen to any side, because both of them are all about the propaganda. Listen to independent people from all around the world, who have very little to gain what ever the result. You will see they all seem to have a very similar view.

Sounds from the reasoning behind the anger that there was some misleading as to whether vote leave would be included though so that is part of the reason. I agree and it doesn't personally bother me too much as Nige is probably fine at debating anyway but it does seem like a pitched choice regardless of there independent structure or not. In my opinion nigel should be there but also should one of the official leave campaigners so I'd rather see a 2 v 2 debate so we can have both of them in.

If they are such a shambles then wouldn't it make more sense to have them in the discussion anyway It'd reveal there haphazard nature and lack of knowledge on the subject and show that should we vote out that there wouldn't be the leadership we'd need to move forward. If that were the case then I'm sure ITV would just put it up and let the public decide but it seems a bit strange to assume they was doing the out side favours with that knowledge or maybe it's just not quite as simple as that.

I don't think we'll find many independent people in this debate and even when we find them it seems like they always get slurred against by the opposite side anyway. I think if it sounds like you're so convinced the out campaign has nothing to go on then it'd be a bit more revealing if they stood up though.

 

[braveheart]

Look at Norway that don't member of EU for years and done so well.. I'm still unsure to vote which one to stay or leave.. My uncle vote for brexit..

 

[Mr Jack]

Look at Norway that don't member of EU for years and done so well..

Norway's done so well because it hit an oil jackpot. It has precious little to do with their relationship with the EU.

 

[bayo000]

Alll pro-EU posts in this thread have been secretly bank-rolled by Goldman Sachs.

Shhhhh. They paid us good money. Or did you not get your envelope yet?

 

[Lt_Red]

The EU Constitution and thereafter the Lisbon Treaty debacle followed by the Ireland "thumbscrews" scenario put paid to any meaning in any member states referendum, so if you really think that an out vote will make any difference at all then you are most likely wrong. The elite and big business really have us by the balls and it is already too late.

Which is exactly why everyone should vote out.

 

[robfosters]

I thought the scots were supposed to be staunch remainers?

Question time tonight seemed to indicate otherwise. Lots of ****** off fisherman.

 

[Boycey0211]

The fishermen are a strange bunch though, they don't like the EU quotas which is fair enough, but also they would quite happily fish the entire north sea into extinction given the chance, which is exactly why the quota system is in place.

 

[Turambar]

I thought the scots were supposed to be staunch remainers?

Question time tonight seemed to indicate otherwise. Lots of ****** off fisherman.

I wouldn't view a question time audience as indicative of the views of the local population.

 

[Outcast]

The full movie has been uploaded now

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqzcqDtL3k

 

[Tephnos]

Leave.

 

[Freakbro]

if you really think that an out vote will make any difference at all then you are most likely wrong.

Which is exactly why everyone should vote out.

Yea....that makes no sense what so ever.

 

[MookJong]

My worry is that it is going to leave 50% of the country pretty disappointed and divided whatever happens.

I can also see UKIP surging if we stay in as they will be the only route to a new vote to exit for a lot of people.

 

[Trifid]

The fishermen are a strange bunch though, they don't like the EU quotas which is fair enough, but also they would quite happily fish the entire north sea into extinction given the chance, which is exactly why the quota system is in place.

As I understood it, over fishing wasn't a problem when it was only UK boats fishing in UK waters. Now we have to share it with the rest of Europe the stocks started depleting.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

As I understood it, over fishing wasn't a problem when it was only UK boats fishing in UK waters. Now we have to share it with the rest of Europe the stocks started depleting.

Well it has been a problem prior to the EU in the 60s. It has been in decline in the last two decades but not massively yet the number of fishing are at their lowest. You can argue demand and population have far more to do with the number of fish rather than having to share the waters. I can understand their gripe with the quotas but if we left the EU, i would feel very strongly about keeping them or at least some form of them.