Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Mr Jack]

As I understood it, over fishing wasn't a problem when it was only UK boats fishing in UK waters. Now we have to share it with the rest of Europe the stocks started depleting.

This is completely false:

The major collapse happened before the advent of the common fisheries policy. Image from Nature.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Christine Lagarde is making yet another doom-mongering ‘major intervention’ at 10am, with that €400 million fraud trial still looming over her. The IMF chief will again warn against Brexit during a meeting with Osborne at the Treasury, a geo-political courtesy return favour to the Chancellor, who campaigned hard for her to get the job. Like pretty much every group Remain have wheeled out, the IMF has received funding from the European Commission. Pro-Remain groups which have made referendum interventions have received €160 million from the Commission in the last nine years:

PwC warned leaving would cause a “serious shock” – no kidding, they’re bankrolled by the Commission to the tune of €16 million. LSE say we’re better off Remaining – they certainly are having received €18 million. The WWF says EU membership “benefits our environment” – it benefits theirs by €46 million.

Remain have barely named a group supporting them which hasn’t received huge amounts from the Commission. He who pays the piper…

UPDATE: RSPB get in touch to stress they do not have a position on the referendum because neither side is campaigning on the environment.

 

[Narj]

Looks like the Government won't be afraid of circumventing Purdah by getting other organisations to do the dirty work for them. The Conservatives seem to be developing a habit of working their way around regulations and spending limits. The whole thing stinks.

 

[Mr Jack]

PwC warned leaving would cause a “serious shock” – no kidding, they’re bankrolled by the Commission to the tune of €16 million.

Let's put this in perspective, shall we.

Price Waterhouse Cooper has an annual revenue of over £3 billion. €16 million over 9 years? That's £1.4m a year, or less than 0.1% of their revenue.

Paying the piper? It's a rounding error for PwC.

LSE say we’re better off Remaining – they certainly are having received €18 million.

I doubt you can find a research institution in the UK that doesn't receive some money from the EU. The EU is, after all, a major investor in research. But let's put this €2 million a year in perspective. The LSE has an annual income of just under £300m, thus this represents a massive half a percent of their annual income.

The WWF says EU membership “benefits our environment” – it benefits theirs by €46 million.

The WWF had annual revenue of €654 million in 2013, €9 million a year from the EU represents under 1.5% of their total budget.

Remain have barely named a group supporting them which hasn’t received huge amounts from the Commission. He who pays the piper…

Huge amounts? These organisations have received small amounts of money from the EU compared to their budgets. And in the case of many of these organisations - e.g. PwC - this doesn't represent a gift from the EU but rather payments for services rendered and it's more than likely that they would continue to receive some or all of this money in future as they continue to carry out some small amount of work for the EU.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that many reputable organisations in the UK have received money from the EU at some point because the EU is a major source of funding.

 

[PapaLazaru]

The hyperbolic scaremongering by the 'Stay' Brigade and media bias has done more to convince me we should leave than the 'Leave' Brigade has or ever could do.

This I exactly how I feel. Some of the scare mongering is awful and if I do decide to change my mind and vote out, Cameron can solely take the blame.

I reckon there is loads of people feeling the same now.

 

[bloodiedathame]

It shouldn't surprise anyone that many reputable organisations in the UK have received money from the EU at some point because the EU is a major source of funding.

The EU may well spend a lot on funding, but does it outweigh what we put in. ie for every £1 they fund, are we paying £2?

Trying to work it out but nothing's ever clear, even the page below even states that the Treasury, ONS, and European Commission all have different figures. It stinks.
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

[fish_dan]

 

[ReltonBFD]

Mr Jack are you actually on the EU payroll?

Watched the Brexit movie, pretty good. Some. Standout points

https://vimeo.com/166389884

 

[Mr Jack]

The EU may well spend a lot on funding, but does it outweigh what we put in. ie for every £1 they fund, are we paying £2?

In terms of specified science funding the UK gets more back than it puts in; but that is of course a small part of the overall spending. In cash terms, a bit over half the money passed to the EU returns to the UK in one form or another but, of course, the money that the EU 'keeps' isn't spent on nothing, it goes to fund a host of administrative and regulatory purposes so if we left the EU we'd need to recreate a lot of these functions and probably see very little cash saving at all. After you consider the economic impacts we'd likely end up with less money overall.

 

[Cyanide]

I haven't seen much in the way of the Out campaign and to be honest they don't need to do much with how negative the In camp is being. Almost every article/advert/pop-up I see makes me think they're getting more and more desperate.

 

[Chris Wilson]

Why is Operation Sophia (the EU funded and UK supported operation to deter people smugglers and deter migrants from illegally crossing the Med to enter EU countries) now become a lifeboat and ferry service for North African migrants, who, on entering International waters 12 miles off the N.African coat, use a satellite phone and a navy ship comes and picks them up and ferries them to Europe?

I feared the BBC would fail to show this total misuse and twist to the stated role of these sailors and ships, but today they are showing it in detail, albeit with its typical migrant friendly and sympathetic bent. Grist for the Brexit mill But what the hell are the EU playing at, operating a ferry service for illegal migrants is diametrically opposed to Operation Sophia's stated purpose. They have already ferried over 9000 migrants ashore into Europe, some deterrent!

 

[Hagar]

I don't believe that we do not have overlapping or shadow administrative posts in the UK that do the same functions as an EU body. These would be made more functional in the 'out' scenario.

In the same way keeping 100% of our receipts must be at least as good as keeping a large percentage, giving the remainder to the EU and getting a proportion of that back (even if that part never leaves our shores). The administration of that must occupy a number of posts that could be realigned to solely domestic use.

 

[bloodiedathame]

In terms of specified science funding the UK gets more back than it puts in; but that is of course a small part of the overall spending. In cash terms, a bit over half the money passed to the EU returns to the UK in one form or another but, of course, the money that the EU 'keeps' isn't spent on nothing, it goes to fund a host of administrative and regulatory purposes so if we left the EU we'd need to recreate a lot of these functions and probably see very little cash saving at all. After you consider the economic impacts we'd likely end up with less money overall.

I'm only being Devils Advocate here, I don't know enough about the ins and outs.

After watching the Brexit film (linked above), there seems to be an argument that administration and regulations (as dreamed up by the EU) are harmful as it makes businesses less innovative and only really benefits big businesses who have the resource to adhere to regulations. It argued that Switzerland is one of the least regulated countries in the world, with one of the strongest economies and societies.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Many smaller businesses (including the one i work for which is only about 80-100 people) will be harmed by brexit. So i think the generalisations about the limits EU imposes on businesses are blown out of proportion.

I definitely would not put down swiss success to lack of regulation. Switzerland is a safe obvious choice for foreign investors because of economic and political stability.

You can guarantee that we will see less foreign investment post Brexit until our trade agreements are settled and I cant imagine that foreign businesses will find the UK anywhere near as attractive if we are no longer a gateway to the EU free trade, as that is what many huge foreign firms use us for. Ireland will probably receive that business, as they seem to get a good handful of big companies set up their European headquarters there for the same reason (since they have a separate free trade agreement with us I can even see businesses move over there).


The opinion on whether it is good for business or bad depends totally on who you speak to but i would find it hard to believe many foreign investors will find the UK as or more appealing if we do leave.

 

[kindai]

Many smaller businesses (including the one i work for which is only about 80-100 people) will be harmed by brexit.

How exactly?

 

[datalol-jack]

Oh, the Leavers have certainly been busy lately, and you can easily tell why Vote Leave still has problems with Leave.EU/GO -- the gaffes and awkwardness intensifies the more leash you give the latter! Good for Bremain!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-washington-and-then-things-got-a-bit-awkward
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...erring-to-immigrants-as-vicious-a7022691.html
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-11/firm-fined-over-brexit-campaign-text-messages/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...n-strikes-11-pro-brexit-campaign-groups-from/

The best gem, as always, comes from Banks:

"If turnout is low, we win. If it’s high, we lose," Banks said. "Our strategy is to bore the electorate into submission, and it’s working."

 

[do_ron_ron]

This is completely false:

The major collapse happened before the advent of the common fisheries policy. Image from Nature.

Indeed, the real reason for the fishing problem lies with the fish industry. Instead of lots of little boats casting nets based on past good catches we had large high tech boats who were able to pinpoint fish shoals and cast their nets to get the lot. They also used finer mesh size, before it was banned, so trapping juvenile fish. The West Coast of Scotland, for example, in my lifetime used to attract boats for herring which were sold to larger East European factory ships. The species collapsed. The fishermen even wanted birds culled, then seals anything but the real culprits.

 

[datalol-jack]

Indeed, the real reason for the fishing problem lies with the fish industry. Instead of lots of little boats casting nets based on past good catches we had large high tech boats who were able to pinpoint fish shoals and cast their nets to get the lot. They also used finer mesh size, before it was banned, so trapping juvenile fish. The West Coast of Scotland, for example, in my lifetime used to attract boats for herring which were sold to larger East European factory ships. The species collapsed. The fishermen even wanted birds culled, then seals anything but the real culprits.

Sounds like the good ol' "let's deregulate ourselves into extinction" argument.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Oh, the Leavers have certainly been busy lately, and you can easily tell why Vote Leave still has problems with Leave.EU/GO -- the gaffes and awkwardness intensifies the more leash you give the latter! Good for Bremain!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-washington-and-then-things-got-a-bit-awkward
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...erring-to-immigrants-as-vicious-a7022691.html
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-11/firm-fined-over-brexit-campaign-text-messages/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...n-strikes-11-pro-brexit-campaign-groups-from/

The best gem, as always, comes from Banks:

Do any of those links have any meaningful impact on how any one views the referendum or parties It's not really done anything for me at least but real news like the Erdogan deal with the EU falling apart is more signs of the EU not having the political clout it needs on the international scene despite constant assurances we're stronger together. We still are stronger more than likely so I'm not going to lie to make a point but if it's strong enough to get results is another question.

Also shame on you datalol, the first link is basically an opinion piece and I think you're one of the most vocal proponents of swallowing agenda's. Maybe it's not as strong a position as you protest but that was a bit hypocritical.

 

[datalol-jack]

Do any of those links have any meaningful impact on how any one views the referendum or parties It's not really done anything for me at least but real news like the Erdogan deal with the EU falling apart is more signs of the EU not having the political clout it needs on the international scene despite constant assurances we're stronger together. We still are stronger more than likely so I'm not going to lie to make a point but if it's strong enough to get results is another question.

Also shame on you datalol, the first link is basically an opinion piece and I think you're one of the most vocal proponents of swallowing agenda's. Maybe it's not as strong a position as you protest but that was a bit hypocritical.

Yes. Vote Leave is livid, and will be more so after the same stunts emerge in the upcoming debates Nige pipped them to. Between Cummings and the GO lot, they're really struggling to keep a lid on the crazies, that's for sure.

No, it won't do anything for you or Brexit. Do I care? Not in the slightest.