Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 522 41.6%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 733 58.4%
  • Total voters
    1,255
  • Poll closed .
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Amp34 said:
While experience counts, generally the older you are the more conservative you are and potentially wanting to hanker towards a period of time that will never happen again. Experience is important, but at the same time so is education. I'm sure there is no coincidence that the "lower brow" newspapers are also read by the most vocally anti EU.

Income could be important because people on lower incomes generally struggle more and may well try blaming other entities on their low income. The EU is that big bogeyman, especially if the papers they read (lower income usually tallies with lower education) aren't explaining complex subjects properly, or at all.

While the 40-49 group are broadly non plussed either way those of an older age are staunchly against the EU. Generally this age group is more conservative, less interested in multicultural, liberal or "young" views than many other parts of society. I'm guessing here but "foreigners" controlling our laws and immigration are probably a big talking point for them. On the other hand most young people now grow up in multicultural schools, have friends from different backgrounds and quite possibly work with people from all over as well. To them "foreigners" aren't scary, they are friends and colleagues. The young may also see the EU as less conservative than the UK, and more open and liberal, being closer to the ideals they believe in. It's no secret England in particular is very conservative compared to most of the ref of Europe.

Obviously they are stereotypes and there will be those that don't fit the mould, but it will cover most people.
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I agree that can be the case but it's no different to classifying uni grads as the naive beer drinking easy to scare monger crowd. While it might apply to some it's not necessarily relevant to all and part of the reason the older people might be conservative is because they've had experience with what they feel works rather than younger people sort of winging it more based on the promises. I agree on education which is why I mentioned it was an interesting point but for me age indicates experience and knowledge of how things have changed and with politics it can be the 'fool me once' perspective where they've had it before ala the euro.

Do lower income people really go around blaming others for there situation though or is that more of a general stereotype? Something tells me if the EU was benefitting them greatly and giving them cheaper flights and whatnot then it's usually those who struggle with money that have to be more savvy with it and they're not out to blindly vote away cheap holidays and whatnot. I feel the papers they read and the education they have matters but the income part is less important. location and education have a pretty strong indicator in my opinion whereas income is more of a hazy one. You can be politically knowledgable and have a low income, the internet is pretty easy to access after all.

I do see what you mean with the growing up with others more though, racism / less cultural awareness was an issue of the past. To be fair it's a hyper sensitive issue at the moment as well so it could be swinging the young voters the wrong way based on typical left leaning overly liberal politics as well though but we'll leave that for another day. I will concede that point about the young people not fearing migrants as much.

For me though I feel that level of stereotyping does underpin the problem with the vote though, we're sort of trying to disrespect peoples opinions almost off the bat but to be fair the stats do indicate it somewhat but there is usually more to an opinion than the easy answer.
 
I don't know if I agree with the becoming more conservative as you age thing because personally, I'm becoming generally more libertarian and mistrustful of the ruling political elite. I probably also have more "left wing" views than I had 5 years ago.
 
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Insanties_birth said:
That's one swing on it but equally the older people have had more experience and seen more political scenarios than the young so a brash decision by young know it alls (I'm young myself mind) can be misinformed so it's just easier pickings for scare tactics from labour really. Whereas education is one way to look at it there is also experience and I'm sure the older voters who have experienced far more elections, political personalities and changes in there lifetime are still not voting for giggles. They'll be voting based on what they feel is right anyway so whether people think it effects them in the future as much isn't really a big detraction.

I'd find the idea of income to not really be too relevant either, it'd only further suggest that those riding the gravy train or with big business links are wanting to ignore the views of those who don't feel they've prospered under the EU whereas the vote is obviously open to any and not just the rich. Education is a quite interesting one still as it could reveal peoples knowledge on the EU subject and also there experiences with interacting with it in the educational field but I don't see why income and age would be something I'd truly consider as a good thing that it's on the EU side. I'm more inclined to respect older peoples views than the university kiddies. Especially bearing in mind the table clearly shows within the age group of 40 and above (hardly the age you expect the EU vote to be irrelevant to your future) it's already dead even near enough.
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I'd be a bit wary of reading too much into any of the categories - it's perhaps a bit of fun to look at them and try to find explanations but as you yourself allude to there's alternative explanations that can be offered e.g. older voters have had more experience of elections so are not voting for giggles, one counter-argument is that in certain constituencies you could put up a rock as a candidate and as long as it has the right colour of rosette it'll win.

I would agree with your subsequent post that there is a problem if people try to disrespect peoples opinions without first listening to them. It's fine to then disagree with others but dismissing them without considering their point means that is only likely to build up resentment. Peoples genuinely held beliefs can be wrong but they probably hold them for "good" reasons i.e. they think that whatever they believe in will make the situation better at some level - that's a worthwhile thing to remember in any debate because few people will set out to do something that actively makes the world a worse place, it might happen as a result but it's seldom what drives their beliefs.

sityeuropa said:
Even on the Guardian website I'm seeing overwhelming support for Brexit in the comments sections.
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I wonder if that's representative of general feeling or whether it's that people with strong feelings about a subject are more likely to tell you about them or simply whether if you look for something you're more likely to see it?
 
sityeuropa said:
Even on the Guardian website I'm seeing overwhelming support for Brexit in the comments sections.
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The comments sections are open to all, not just those who buy the paper. The Guardian is no different to the Daily Mail in that it publishes clickbait articles to wind up people on the opposite end of the political spectrum. It's often these people who comment on articles.
 
Narj said:
I don't know if I agree with the becoming more conservative as you age thing because personally, I'm becoming generally more libertarian and mistrustful of the ruling political elite. I probably also have more "left wing" views than I had 5 years ago.
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i think its based more on Economics that the authoritarian/liberal.
 
Tunney said:
The comments sections are open to all, not just those who buy the paper. The Guardian is no different to the Daily Mail in that it publishes clickbait articles to wind up people on the opposite end of the political spectrum. It's often these people who comment on articles.
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Not seeing much Remain support on Daily Mail though.
 
It's not just the Guardian and the DM, the BBC too is crawling with brexiteers, most news sites are. If last year's general election comments section reflected in actual votes, Farage would be PM.
 
Newspaper site comment sections have always confused me. Just who are the people who consider it a worthwhile investment of time? You could argue its like posting on here but it feels different - it feels like on here we are a community and discussing things with people who are familiar to us from an online community perspective - whereas random comments on a newspaper article feels a bit like you are just ******* into the wind...

It must attract a certain type of person - the comments sections are always anti everything.
 
Zethor said:
Link? I only see this:
https://opendemocracy.net/about/supporters
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Err, you originally linked to CEPR, not open democracy. As per their 2015 financial accounts here, which says:

CEPRs accounts said:
CEPR's income for its charitable activities is a mix of 'restricted' and 'unrestricted' funds. The restricted income, which is the main source of funding for CEPR's research activities, is derived predominantly from projects CEPR administers for the Department for International Development (DFID) and the European Commission.
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So they get their funding mainly from the UK Government and the EU commission. Shock horror they are in favour of remaining!

Still trying to pretend they're not biased?

Zethor said:
Where is the evidence that support your claims? Do you have anything other than some politicians, a mercenary site which would probably support anal probes as a solution for gas shortages for the right payment, former somethings and economists who used wrong models? That's the problem with the Out side from a financial point of view, the arguments don't stand and the proponents have no credibility.

The In side has the economists' consensus, the scientific consensus, the world leader consensus, the global financial entities consensus. Even the Bank of England, as of today. Do you honestly believe the whole world is conspiring to keep the UK in the EU?
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It seems you've given up on debating the actual issues and are now just asserting that "consensus" is in your favour. Do you actually know anything about the issues, how the EU works in reality, what it stands for, what it wants to achieve, why nationalism is on the rise across the whole of Europe, why the OCUK poll has gone from pro-remain to pro-leave? I guess not.

That's one of the problems with the remain camp, when it comes down to it a lot of their argument is basically "but the IMF, global banks, global businesses etc are telling us we must remain". Do you think it's conceivable that the IMF isn't looking out for your best interests, but is more concerned that without Britain the EU may well collapse and its significant loans to Greece won't get paid back? Global leaders are doing what the UK Government asks them to, that's diplomacy, they don't care about what's in the best long term interests of the British people. Mark Carney as pointed out earlier worked for 13 years for Goldman Sachs etc. Then there's the CBI, whose leader was suspended and then resigned because he was pro Brexit.

To put your faith in the above groups without looking at their vested interest, their real agenda or the detail of the issues is just naive.

And you can keep saying the "consensus" is in favour of remaining, but even with big businesses only a third of the FTSE100 signed the pro remain letter, so two thirds chose not to sign it, hardly a consensus. Much like the swing in the OCUK survey, a British Chambers of Commerce recent survey said that the business majority for remain was being diminished. Maybe people are looking at the issues rather than blindly believing the scaremongering headlines.

The people who actually create value, entrepreneurs, from what I've seen are generally in favour of leaving e.g. Dyson, Wetherspoons, JCB, the founders of Reebok, Phones4U etc. Then there's the 100 leading city figures who want out, including the founders of various hedge funds, private equity groups and insurance companies.

The current figureheads of global businesses (e.g. HSBC) often have to be seen to toe the establishment line, whereas the ex CEO of HSBC, the ex Governor of the Bank of England etc are free to speak their minds and provide a more unbiased view. Putting less faith in someone's opinion the day after they leave a position of power is again just naive.

This Newsnight debate sums up the above pretty well - an entrepreneur running her own business who wants out, versus a manager of Siemens. I know who I thought had the more convincing argument, and the audience seemed to agree.
 
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Moses said:
It started off with their first expert talking about general elections every four years... we have five year fixed term Parliaments...
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Only since the Fixed-term Parliaments Act of 2011. There were often four year gaps between general elections e.g. 1983, 1987, 1997, 2001, 2005. They also had two further speakers in the first 20 minutes which said every 5 years.
 
Mr Badger said:
Just because you can see the economic value of staying in the EU doesn't mean that you can't also be racist.
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I voted UKIP at the General Election and I'm not racist, I also assume some people who voted Labour aren't unemployed idiots, and some people who vote for the Conservatives aren't millionaire bankers. I also don't imagine every single person who voted for the Green Party is a new age hippie who believes in alternative medicine.
 
Roar87 said:
I voted UKIP at the General Election and I'm not racist, I also assume some people who voted Labour aren't unemployed idiots, and some people who vote for the Conservatives aren't millionaire bankers. I also don't imagine every single person who voted for the Green Party is a new age hippie who believes in alternative medicine.
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Nope your a xenophobic thug . Only Racists and little Englanders vote UKIP.

Its a funny thing bigotry, only goes one way ..:rolleyes:
 
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