Because getting to grips with either isn't mutually exclusive?
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
- Thread starter RJC
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Because getting to grips with either isn't mutually exclusive?
Fully agreed
Associate
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Because the narrative in this country is to turn people with not much against those who have even less. Easier to get away with stuff that way.
Soldato
Because it's too easy to blame the immigrants.
Soldato
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A figure of several million was discussed with straight faces. Usual suspects on this forum were in a right flap. The media made a song and dance about it, and yet nothing came of it. Heck, the day the borders opened, I distinctly recall a few MPs awkwardly greeting one or two arrivals and not the swarms that were prophesied.
As for the initial bump post transitory arrangements for the two countries, it was anticipated. The flow will decrease as both Romania and Bulgaria gravitate economically to the European average.
And regarding your shock stat, 125,000 is 0.2% of the population -- hardly a doomsday flood that shall forever change the face of Britain.
Soldato
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Exactly. What also concerns me is the recent trend of 'lottery luck thinking'. Say, if X -- very unlikely event were to happen, I could be Y times better off, eventually. The trouble is this eventually bit is never specified nor comes to pass, people lose hope, and move on to something else to blame. Their mana rain is always on the horizon, basic economics be damned!
I voted to leave - With the present knowledge I have.
Not due to a fear of immigration or the belief as a country we would necessarily be more economical outside the EU. Rather that the EU state as a whole is only getting larger thereby making our voice less heard.
I'm confident that as a country we would succeed outside the EU. Better or worse? Who knows. We may make mistakes but staying in the EU solely to avoid the unknown is foolish in my mind.
I'm looking forward to when the debates begin in earnest.
Not attack companies for doing what we all would do. Who in there right mind would want to pay more tax than legally required? I definitely wouldn't pay higher rate on all my earnings discarding the basic earnings band! Would you get rid of your personal allowance? I doubt it.
Not due to a fear of immigration or the belief as a country we would necessarily be more economical outside the EU. Rather that the EU state as a whole is only getting larger thereby making our voice less heard.
I'm confident that as a country we would succeed outside the EU. Better or worse? Who knows. We may make mistakes but staying in the EU solely to avoid the unknown is foolish in my mind.
I'm looking forward to when the debates begin in earnest.
Can people please note that that Tax Evasion is illegal. and I agree needs to be dealt with. however Tax Avoidance is perfectly legal. We should be petitioning our government to fix the internaional and domestic legislation that allows companies to legally pay little to no tax.
Not attack companies for doing what we all would do. Who in there right mind would want to pay more tax than legally required? I definitely wouldn't pay higher rate on all my earnings discarding the basic earnings band! Would you get rid of your personal allowance? I doubt it.
Nonsense there are examples of Companies/Individuals with social responsibility, who do not go in for tax avoidance.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...uding-james-dyson-and-jk-rowling-7873607.html
1. we should name/shame and boycott those that avoid tax on a grand scale
2. Government should actually shut down the well known loop holes
All in it together, my r's
Perhaps you need to realise you can be pro-EU can be blind about it, you can be pro-EU not be blind about it, i was talking to the first group, looks like you're the one that needs to learn distinctions
Fair enough; it's hard to tell with you and your blind faith.
Did you see the programme? Perhaps you should
Soldato
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It is a known fact that one's vote is but a tiny fraction of influence over the way in which the country is run, should we dispense with democracy altogether?
Even after Brexit, you would still be stuck with an interconnected world making decisions in real time. How much influence can Britain, possibly without Scotland, leverage on the global stage then?
The Leavers aren't spelling out very clearly what a post-exit Britain would look like, or how it would deal with the wider world.
Should we throw our lot in with the US completely? Maybe realign to China? Follow the Japanese example into several lost decades? Commonwealth? EFTA or not? If not, how would we then trade with Europe... tarrifs? What would be the cost of implementing new trade deals, who will manage them and will we lose or gain from the transition? If the EU investment is pulled, will the government step up to plug the gap? More austerity? Where will the jobs created by large European companies relocating their operations come from? If we do go the EFTA route, then how would Leavers justify the status quo on immigration that would entail (minus permanent settlement rights) to their supporters? You can go on all day.
Their camp is too hopelessly divided to even begin answering any issues of substance, and I doubt talking only immigration will swing it for them -- it's a toxic topic.
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That's exactly what I would have said at the 1975 referendum if someone had said Poland, Rumania and Bulgaria would at eventually join.
Turkey applied to join in 1983 and would almost certainly been allowed in if it wasn't for their lousy human rights record and France and Germany staunch opposition.
Cameron is an EU expansionist and has strongly supported TK membership in the past and more recently, which would give us borders with one of the most dangerous parts of the world. It's inevitable that in the next 10,20,30 years TK will get in. What then? Ukraine I suspect.
I don't thik I was advocating the scrapping of the international banking system. But one can live in hope.
I call in to to question the judgement and motives of companies like GS who made fortunes out of the 2008 crash, individuals at the top personally enriched themselves hugely and those further down the trough have positions of influence all over the world. Bank Of England govenor Mark Carney being just one.
It was GS that 'cooked the books' for Greece to enter the EU. And we all know where that train wreck ended up. On our plate.
http://www.thenation.com/article/goldmans-greek-gambit/
No wonder GS, JP Morgan et al love the EU. Whetever they are selling, I'm not buying.
Well I think everyone from both sides of the fence can agree we all knew that was going to happen!
Soldato
Out.
No sensible person would want to stay in.
We need total control of our borders, tax and laws, with no exception.
No sensible person would want to stay in.
We need total control of our borders, tax and laws, with no exception.
Just remove trade barriers and profit, it's simple. Anyone who imposes trade barriers against us only hurts themselves.
You have very little faith in what the UK is about. We will soon be the 5th largest economy in the world, spectacular for a small island, once the shackles are off and we aren't stuck behind the protectionism of the EU we can literally do what we want, make deals with who we want that suit us when we want.
The likes of New Zealand and Australia do just fine from the other side of the world, we can do much better from the chronological centre of the world.
The EU is falling apart at the seams, let them sink from the outside.
Large European companies won't leave in droves, and if some do they will be replaced by worldwide companies who don't want to be shackled to EU tariffs and crazy regulations. We can be ultra competitive on this regard. I've just blown £4k this week to put a towbar on a van, because I can't without falling foul of EU law and being forced to spend a fortune fitting tachos to drive 10 miles at most. That cost is PER Van.
As a business owner I'm completely flabbergasted by the amount of EU regulation affects by my business, most of it complete insanity and involves spending lots of money.
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