Britain already has control over taxes and laws and can control non-EU immigration as it sees fit but still allows plenty of non-EU immigration (for very good reasons).
So what exactly is it you expect to be different after a Brexit?
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
- Thread starter RJC
- Start date
- Status
Britain already has control over taxes and laws and can control non-EU immigration as it sees fit but still allows plenty of non-EU immigration (for very good reasons).
So what exactly is it you expect to be different after a Brexit?
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
Good point. Does anyone here foresee someone other than the Tories, broadly in-line with the Cameron/Osborne doctrine, running the country in the next 10-15 years? If you think the Leave camp is bursting at the seams with top notch, world-busting leaders ready for a coup, it ain't!
----------------
I wouldn't defend big money in political matters too ardently, majestyk, no. But my view is in the minority, and on all sides of the political spectrum, depending on the issues raised, you end up with the strangest of bedfellows. Can we make things fairer and more impartial before the referendum? No. So, I choose to focus on the issues at hand.
Last edited:
Soldato
Out here.
Couple of interesting points here, highlighting the strengths the UK has around negotiating, before, and after the referendum. The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-01-29/could-a-brexit-vote-turn-u-k-into-a-safe-haven-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...would-be-second-class-says-deutsche-economist
Couple of interesting points here, highlighting the strengths the UK has around negotiating, before, and after the referendum. The EU needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-01-29/could-a-brexit-vote-turn-u-k-into-a-safe-haven-
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...would-be-second-class-says-deutsche-economist
Soldato
Dont count on it.
The EU want us to get rid of the 0 rate VAT, minimum vat is 5% under EU law
So that did you say about control of our taxes?
EU supreme court trumps UK courts.
So that did you say about control of our laws?
I said earlier that I'm waiting for the final picture to emerge mord clearly, when the date is announced.
But if Cameron thinks this proposed emergency brake is any sort of victory for him or the UK, or that the people are stupid enough to buy that, then I think he's certifiable.
I was leaning towards out, and if he's seriously going to accept that, I'm in danger of leaning so far I fall over.
If that's the result of months of negotiation, then I'm actually going to be insulted, and angry at him if he tries to pretend if's anything other than a total capitulation and a very bad joke.
If he comes back with that and actually has the brass to 'recommend' it, I'll vote to leave.
But if Cameron thinks this proposed emergency brake is any sort of victory for him or the UK, or that the people are stupid enough to buy that, then I think he's certifiable.
I was leaning towards out, and if he's seriously going to accept that, I'm in danger of leaning so far I fall over.
If that's the result of months of negotiation, then I'm actually going to be insulted, and angry at him if he tries to pretend if's anything other than a total capitulation and a very bad joke.
If he comes back with that and actually has the brass to 'recommend' it, I'll vote to leave.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
I prefer not to take the economy on faith, thanks.
Our current position is in no small part due to being in Europe and the US confidence of routing its European business through us. Chinese thinking on the matter is much the same.
So I would really want to know what you are basing your forecasts on? More importantly, I'd very much like to see any credible paperwork and numbers from the Leave camp. You can't succeed on myths and feeling good about yourself, I'm afraid.
Soldato
Both China man and Fat yank, export more to the UK than we to them, so they will not want to upset business.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
Willing to stake your job and the future of your children on that? I'm game.
Soldato
This pretty much sums up the out campaign. "Once we're out we can do what we want" while criticizing politicians that they can't negotiate anything/ close loopholes etc.
Once out, this country will be stuck with these same people running the whole country. At the moment there's at least some kind of "guiding" hand over them making sure they don't make stupid decisions.
Sure EU makes bad decisions at times but overall it's much better place to be.
Rather than wanting out people should spend more time choosing who they vote for to represent them in EU parliament next time. No wonder UK has currently no power in EU when people "protest voted" UKIP into EU parliament to represent the country.
Get right people in (or at least the best of the worst bunch rather than the worst of the worst) and UK could have a strong voice in running/ shaping the direction that EU takes.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
I have no qualms about holding politicians to account. Furthermore, even if they happen to be on your side, it shouldn't make them immune from criticism. Still, people voted for a referendum, they're now getting one. If you don't like how it's run, get involved!
Soldato
I am, Im voting us out
I work in the oil and gas industry and my parent company is a huge French national ... Even if it meant I'd lose my job I'll still be voting out.
Why? Because a totalitarian EU government is where things are heading, and I think my children would be better off in the future if we left and were able to plot our own course.
Depends on what you define as a grand scale. I wholeheartedly agree with number 2.
I think we are to an extent. However if I came to sell my house I would take advantage of the fact it is taxed as Capital Gains and not income as I'm sure you would as well. The fact the mega rich have enough to pay a tax specialist to find complicated ways to avoid tax is the failure of the tax system not the individual.
I would hesitantly say you're lying to yourself if you believe you would be happy paying a tax bill of £200,000 rather than £50,000 regardless of the level of wealth you have.
kitch9 had some good responses. As stated I'm looking forward to actual ideas from both camps.
The in camp is still very much a FUD campaign. That's not enough to convince me I'm afraid! However I am open to the fact if the out camp don't produce any actionable plans if we did leave then I would definitely waver to voting to stay in.
Soldato
- Joined
- 1 Mar 2010
- Posts
- 6,316
Up to you, lads. Let's settle it at the ballot box.
Unsurprisingly that's an inaccurate representation of what has been said only a day or two ago.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/28/eu-plan-cut-uk-vat-exemptions-pierre-moscovici
Something they 'might' consider, that we can veto anyway and the guy who said it already backtracked on his comment
It's better to be 'in' and fight your own corner than 'out' and not part of the club. And for all the people saying nothing will change with our trade after an exit, you obviously have never been involved in importing/exporting prior to our EU unification
Moreover, even if there was a 5% minimum VAT it wouldn't actually apply to items not eligible for VAT.
Currently, some items and some organizations are not liable for AVT.
And then some items and organizations pay 0% VAT.
These aren't the same thing
Yep exempt and zero rated are different, but the things that are mentioned; food, children's clothing etc are the zero rated items, but it still seems a non story to me
Soldato
Like the Daily fail anything with from the Guardian is also considered rubbish.
Now the PM has back tracked from allowing child benefit from being sent back to other countries. if manifest was said he would stop it.
More reason to leave the EU
- Status