As for this thread - it's becoming apparent that most of those that have made up their mind aren't changing it very easily. It's comical seeing people posting until they're blue in the face and getting nowhere.
Well it's always worth posting to argue against false points and to inform / reawaken other issues. I'm a lot more pro EU than I started thanks to all the reading but it only led me to realise there was nonsensical arguments on both sides. Whether it be safety in europe and bigger global presence (never materialised, no presence in syria, middle east tyrants, russia annexing crimea, mexico drug wars, china builing islands in the sea, kim jong un, jihadi's travelling to syria and back for fun etc.) or whether it's anti EU arguments like freedom of movement which we'll no doubt end up signed up to anyway since the EU is like pulling teeth and don't compromise on anything if we want to trade with them.
There's been benefits to the EU like human rights, investment, economic stability, better relations with EU.
There's negatives to EU like forcing ever more laws from the top, outsourcing democracy to 27 other countries for slow action and disputes on every issue along with fighting to make quick sensible actions in our own country, the EU may be looking to prop up TTIP if news articles are correct etc.
In the end we'll have 2 years to renegotiate trade deals as well so I feel the economic argument is weakened, I feel migration will occur one way or the other so that is a moot point. We'll always trade anyway so yeah, a lot of the arguments won't be as dramatic as people want to make it out to be and in the end we'll live one way or another but it's just whether you support the vision the EU entails and trust in there leadership (I have a hard time trusting it when it entails 27 other nations voting on self interest rather than just our own mp's voting on our own issues). In the end you read the worst, you crack out the FUD, you realise half the stuff is scaremongering as to what scale it will effect us and then you vote based on which future you think makes sense. I don't trust the EU to last based on there failures during the migration crisis (Erdogan insulting them for not giving promised money months down the line, not stepping in to make sure germany wasn't acting over zealously, unable to keep there laws enforced with Austria and Hungary putting caps on migration, unable to stem the flow even with outside help from turkey, slow to erect any borders / protection or support the member nations etc.) Not to mention there negotiations in britains referendum highlighted how quickly self interest flares up and how little compromise we can expect on any future issues. I feel the EU is a sinking ship sooner or later, better out now and reshape the future later as it'll be damaging if it breaks down later anyway but others might disagree. Still, you don't learn anything by putting your fingers in your ears, I gave the EU a chance and I felt disappointed as there's always news of issues, slow action, worry of TTIP (with EU officials placating exxon mobil) migration crisis, there direct lie about the cologne sex attacks, there lack of willingness to compromise etc. It's good in some ways but it's just a question of leadership for me, do I trust votes of 27 countries to work for local issues? No. Do I trust the EU leaders have the right mindset and have displayed great leadership? No (schengen falling apart, don't trust TTIP, don't like the forcing of ever closer union or the political environment etc.). I'd love a joined up EU, it makes sense but it should be about economics, I don't even mind freedom of movement and giving money to poorer EU countries to lift up the EU scene but the EU is a failure just like they let Greece in and then couldn't do a thing to help them and then blame them for migrants getting through (like they have millions of resources to stop it). I simply feel it's a question of leadership and the future, we need a future where we don't outsource democracy in my opinion and we don't bang heads with 27 other countries each time over laws that should be dealt with in the UK. When they're ready to make an EU that benefits everyone economically without trying to ethnically and politically rewrite everything from the top then I'll be cool with it.
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