Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[robgmun]

You're right Robgmun

Aint no-one so blind as those that refuse to see

The posts from Zethor, DP and Mr Jack just proves my point

 

[Zethor]

Firstly it's not saying "we don't you", it's saying "you are welcome provided you meet certain criteria". Do you lock your door when you go out? Does that mean you never want a visitor? No.

We trade with the rest of the world under the same conditions and they don't impose "cutting your nose off to spite your face" trade restrictions on us just because we won't allow their citizens and open-door immigration policy.

Good luck getting a free trade agreement with the rest of the world then. You will need it.

 

[estebanrey]

Good luck getting a free trade agreement with the rest of the world then. You will need it.

Why would we NEED a free trade agreement with the Eastern European states? How much of our GP is utterly dependent on that existing?

But to ask you a question then, why don't the British Government add massive tariffs to Chinese steel imports rather than let them import it cheaply and putting our own industry under water?

We now live in a global economy and the idea that governments will deliberately add tariffs to protect their own industries like the did in the past just doesn't happen anymore.

 

[Danthus]

Why would we NEED a free trade agreement with the Eastern European states? How much of our GP is utterly dependent on that existing?

Because the EU would negotiate as a block, we could not agree a deal with Germany without the rest of the EU member states agreeing it.

 

[estebanrey]

Because the EU would negotiate as a block, we could not agree a deal with Germany without the rest of the EU member states agreeing it.

So when the likes of France and Germany, who let's say accept our terms, are having their trade with us stopped because of a couple of small Eastern European countries are annoyed they can no longer let their young and fit to come here and send half their wages back home with impunity, they would just agree with them and wouldn't tell them STFU and deal with it?

 

[Mr Jack]

Right, so Poland should ignore their own economic prospects in favour of their hard workers' desire to move to where the highest wages are, whereas in the UK our citizens are wrong to complain about the freedom of movement policy because it's good for our economy?

The economy of Poland certainly suffers a direct loss from the exodus of it's citizens; but it's citizens benefit from that freedom of movement. Since Poland is a democracy the votes are in the will of the people. Immigration is almost always a benefit for the country that people are immigrating to; and a net negative for the country they are emigrating from.

The picture is a bit more complex than that, of course, because Poland also benefits from the flow of money from the richer UK and the upskilling that returning citizens get from their time spent in a more advanced economy so it's possible that the picture in the round is not so bleak and, of course, freedom of movement is part of a package deal which contains many more benefits for Poland.

 

[robgmun]

Dispute it then? What's more likely to be rubbish, an opinion with solid arguments or an empty one liner?

Even if it wasn't rubbish, there's far more important things than money, i'd take stability and social cohesion over flooding this country with migrants for a few pence in a pound. If anything that's just selling out if you're trying to argue that point because i suspect the same ones who do argue that point also accuse the Tory party of being money grabbing greedy pigs

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Good luck getting a free trade agreement with the rest of the world then. You will need it.

Why would we need luck? The Asian economies (China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) would bite our hand off to get free trade deals. It's highly likely NAFTA would come around to a free trade deal also, because frankly we buy more of their goods than vice versa.

 

[Danthus]

So when the likes of France and Germany, who let's say accept our terms, are having their trade with us stopped because of a couple of small Eastern European countries are annoyed they can no longer let their young and fit to come here and send half their wages back home with impunity, they would just agree with them and wouldn't tell them STFU and deal with it?

They would have to negotiate new rules.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

Why would we need luck? The Asian economies (China, Japan, South Korea and Taiwan) would bite our hand off to get free trade deals. It's highly likely NAFTA would come around to a free trade deal also, because frankly we buy more of their goods than vice versa.

Why in gods name would you want a free trade deal, if they have the trade surplus?

Nate

 

[Mr Jack]

Even if it wasn't rubbish, there's far more important things than money, i'd take stability and social cohesion over flooding this country with migrants for a few pence in a pound. If anything that's just selling out if you're trying to argue that point because i suspect the same ones who do argue that point also accuse the Tory party of being money grabbing greedy pigs

Migrants also bring a host of social benefits. Or do you not eat Pizza, Kebab, Chinese and Indian? Do you never shop at your local polish store? People from other countries enrich our culture with their own.

I think it's quite telling that support for immigration is highest in the areas with the highest levels of immigration and lowest in the areas with the lowest levels of immigration (and, no, the relative levels of actual immigrants are nowhere near high enough to explain this difference). It's almost like opinions against immigration aren't informed by actual experiences of immigration.

 

[robgmun]

Migrants also bring a host of social benefits. Or do you not eat Pizza, Kebab, Chinese and Indian? Do you never shop at your local polish store? People from other countries enrich our culture with their own.

Honestly? I stopped eating take-aways since i was a teenager, and i actively HATE Indian food. It's increably bad for you, and why would i shop at local polish store?

 

[FoxEye]

Migrants also bring a host of social benefits. Or do you not eat Pizza, Kebab, Chinese and Indian? Do you never shop at your local polish store? People from other countries enrich our culture with their own.

Stop making me hungry

Mmmmmm, delicious Kabanos.

 

[estebanrey]

The economy of Poland certainly suffers a direct loss from the exodus of it's citizens; but it's citizens benefit from that freedom of movement. Since Poland is a democracy the votes are in the will of the people. Immigration is almost always a benefit for the country that people are immigrating to; and a net negative for the country they are emigrating from.

The picture is a bit more complex than that, of course, because Poland also benefits from the flow of money from the richer UK and the upskilling that returning citizens get from their time spent in a more advanced economy so it's possible that the picture in the round is not so bleak and, of course, freedom of movement is part of a package deal which contains many more benefits for Poland.

I agree, and the fact the Polish government try to block anything that will limit their citizens from full wages and benefits when they come here proves that.

My point is, we must be losing out but the argument we tend to get from the pro-EU lot is that we benefit from the mass immigration from Eastern Europeans because we don't have to pay to school them, they get jobs and pay tax here then leave before we have to pay them pensions.

Ergo, we can't both be benefiting from it, or rather you can't cherry pick the advantages when talking about either country and forgot each is also a disadvantage for the other.

 

[Woden]

The chippy near me used to be owned by an Italian, but it's now run by a Chinese bloke with a thick Irish accent.

I'm now say at work running a SCADA system built by Germans, a chunk of the work is bound for Sweden, most of it is imported goods.

My lively hood, and my fish supper rely on the EU.

 

[pinkpill]

Because the EU would negotiate as a block, we could not agree a deal with Germany without the rest of the EU member states agreeing it.

Germany controls Europe, the Germans are desperate to destroy the city, the question is what institutions of Europe are in Britain. the Arabs and the Chinese will not deal with Europe. Britain is what gave Europe its power.
the Long we stay the greater the loss of Britains power.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31725075

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/the-financial-services-industry-and.html

Britain is screwed if it stays or it leaves, because our politicians bend over to much for the EU.
If Britain leaves, the EU will be flooded with high unemployment, there will be less money going to the EU, theres too much money in the UK finance system. Europe ie Germany wants the finance system the UK has. The problem with the euro ECB, even if we join the Euro, the Germanys and the French would never allow the ECB to be based in the UK when it should be.

http://www.cer.org.uk/insights/ecb-not-german-central-bank

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Migrants also bring a host of social benefits. Or do you not eat Pizza, Kebab, Chinese and Indian? Do you never shop at your local polish store? People from other countries enrich our culture with their own.

I think it's quite telling that support for immigration is highest in the areas with the highest levels of immigration and lowest in the areas with the lowest levels of immigration (and, no, the relative levels of actual immigrants are nowhere near high enough to explain this difference). It's almost like opinions against immigration aren't informed by actual experiences of immigration.

Nothing to do immigrants wanting to bring the rest of their tribe over then?

 

[MikeB]

given anything agreed to prior to the referendum can be overturned right afterwards by europe then i have to vote out

 

[John40]

Migrants also bring a host of social benefits. Or do you not eat Pizza, Kebab, Chinese and Indian? Do you never shop at your local polish store? People from other countries enrich our culture with their own.

A host of social benefits ? really, what an astounding statement.

Tell me how the Roma gypsy beggars/thieves enrich me ?

And why on earth would anybody not Eastern European set foot in any Polish shop ?

 

[platypus]

Trust good ol Nige to bring it all back to reality.

Haha, genuinely the funniest thing in this thread. Thanks .