Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[datalol-jack]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ta-exposes-limits-of-camerons-emergency-brake

ROFL, Cameron's 'emergency brake' will only affect 84,000 migrants out of 2,225,000 migrants from EU countries. Even the pro-EU lobby aren't defending this.

Did you want it to apply retrospectively to everyone in the country already? I'm not sure that was on the cards to begin with. Plus aren't you forgetting ~2 million Brits in Europe? 84,000, out of even 300,000 net figure, is a significant chunk of the net migration figures, most of whom aren't on benefits and are in work. Would you give up our European veto altogether, or accept a banking levy, to get extended migrants' benefits measures instead?

Just saying, it's not as terrible of a deal as you seem to make out. The talks continue too. I'll wait for the final text of the deal to emerge before passing judgement.

One thing I've noticed is that the pro-EU lobby aren't very self-confident - most of their arguments involve diminishing the UK somehow e.g. little Britain won't have a chance negotiating against the big boys from Brussels. We're the world's fifth largest economy for crying out loud, our own economy is 20% of the size of the other EU 27 nations put together. Sometimes however their arguments border on sinister, actually implying that Britain is a force for evil and we must be run from Brussels for the good of the rest of the world. I reject that notion utterly.

So what's your source of confidence for us keeping our position if we vote out? Data, figures, experts, reports, draft deals -- where are they? Last I heard, the two Leave groupings were shuffling people and fighting like ferrets in a barrel!

I read some polling data and ads produced for them by contractors and a few news stories and tabloid hot messes; but not much else. In fact, they're going with a data-lite approach so far.

You're kidding yourself if you believe things will carry on much the same after an exit vote, with a few less foreigners about in the news thereafter and a new Gilded Age on the horizon, should we go Independence-MAX, tariffs, job losses and all.

You seem pro-jobs and pro-workers, but paradoxically oppose one thing that both guarantees their income and decent employment rights. :\ Particularly, why should the poorest in society bear the brunt of an almost arbitrary transition to an uncertain end; since it's their incomes, cost of living and jobs that will be proportionately affected the most? What's your thinking there?

 

[Mr Jack]

The latest YouGov poll is showing a substantial leave vote. This is interesting not just because it's the first really big leave majority we've seen in the polls but also because it shows a significant shift against Remain post-Cameron's "renegotiation" attempt.

Individual polls remain inconclusive and the phone/online divide remains in the polling data but this could well be the start of a decisive swing to Leave. Or an overdramatic overinterpretation of random swing, time will tell.

 

[kindai]

The latest YouGov poll is showing a substantial leave vote. This is interesting not just because it's the first really big leave majority we've seen in the polls but also because it shows a significant shift against Remain post-Cameron's "renegotiation" attempt.

Individual polls remain inconclusive and the phone/online divide remains in the polling data but this could well be the start of a decisive swing to Leave. Or an overdramatic overinterpretation of random swing, time will tell.

Honestly, I think given the disgrace of the reforms we've been offered, and that other EU members arn't happy with these watered down words of nothing people are finally saying enough is enough.

 

[FoxEye]

Honestly, I think given the disgrace of the reforms we've been offered, and that other EU members arn't happy with these watered down words of nothing people are finally saying enough is enough.

Perhaps people might just realise that the UK is not the centre of the universe. And that the other members of the EU shouldn't just agree with everything the UK's /current conservative government/ wants.

Let's face it, our man Dave only represents about 36% of the UK's voting population at best! His mandate is tentative, and not everyone at home agrees with his "demands". Even those who did realise that he's basically failed in his mission.

It's a clear choice. The EU way or out of the EU. Dave has utterly failed in his negotiation.

 

[Tunney]

Dave messed up the Scottish independence referendum, giving away huge concessions at the last minute and now he's messed up on the EU renegotiation.

Don't worry though, if we vote to leave the EU he'll get us a great deal.

 

[scorza]

The latest YouGov poll is showing a substantial leave vote. This is interesting not just because it's the first really big leave majority we've seen in the polls but also because it shows a significant shift against Remain post-Cameron's "renegotiation" attempt.

Individual polls remain inconclusive and the phone/online divide remains in the polling data but this could well be the start of a decisive swing to Leave. Or an overdramatic overinterpretation of random swing, time will tell.

I don't believe a word of it. These poll results are extremely convenient for the Remain campaign and makes their inevitable scaremongering tactics more effective. It just odd how the polls always seem to benefit Cameron somehow, like the Scottish Independence referendum and the General Election.

 

[scorza]

Dave messed up the Scottish independence referendum, giving away huge concessions at the last minute and now he's messed up on the EU renegotiation.

Did he? Last time I checked he got the result he wanted in Scotland, and as the SNP are now finding out, offering something and actually delivering it are two separate things.

 

[Cosimo]

The tide is turning after this week's draft proposal...





I can see the proposals being watered down and even more going for Brexit.

 

[Jacksonn]

Today's meeting with polish leaders will only go in favour to leaving I think

 

[Mr Jack]

I don't believe a word of it. These poll results are extremely convenient for the Remain campaign and makes their inevitable scaremongering tactics more effective. It just odd how the polls always seem to benefit Cameron somehow, like the Scottish Independence referendum and the General Election.

...

Let me get this straight: you think the pollsters are rigging their polls to suit Cameron? That's an "interesting" theory, you've got there.

Besides which, how exactly is this poll - showing a shift to Leave - convenient for the Remain campaign? And how does a poll showing most Brits think Cameron got a bad deal good for Cameron?

 

[Mr Jack]

ROFL, Cameron's 'emergency brake' will only affect 84,000 migrants out of 2,225,000 migrants from EU countries. Even the pro-EU lobby aren't defending this.

I don't want Cameron's emergency brake at all why would I defend it?

 

[scorza]

...

Let me get this straight: you think the pollsters are rigging their polls to suit Cameron? That's an "interesting" theory, you've got there.

Besides which, how exactly is this poll - showing a shift to Leave - convenient for the Remain campaign? And how does a poll showing most Brits think Cameron got a bad deal good for Cameron?

Well it's acknowledged by everyone now that the polls that showed a Labour hung parliament in the run up to the 2015 general election were extremely useful for Cameron as it allowed them to use the prospect of a Lab-SNP coalition to scare voters in England to vote Tory. I don't see how you can deny that. The pollsters themselves admitted that they got their samples wrong and were guilty of "herding". All I'm saying is that it's odd how all the mistakes the pollsters make seem to benefit David Cameron.

 

[John40]

I agree that a poll showing a slight shift towards leaving will unfortunately only help Cameron long term.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Cameron seems to think that the EU supports progressive policies.

All the Acts outlawing discrimination in Britain - the 1970 Equal Pay Act, the 1975 Sex Discrimination Act, the 1976 Race Relations Act, and the 1995 Disability Discrimination Act - were passed well before the EU’s Employment Equality Directive of 2000. So our equality rights did not come from the EU; they do not depend on our being in the EU.

EU directives do not promote or protect collective bargaining. They do not protect the right to strike. EU directives do not protect any of the rights we have won. We first won our right to guaranteed paid holidays through the 1871 Bank Holidays Act. We did have paid holidays before 2003 and the EU’s Working Time Directive.

All EU directives require member states to enact their provisions in national legislation. So laws on paternity leave, the 48-hour working week and TUPE rules stand until parliament repeals them. They do not depend on our being in the EU.

In early 2014 the EU agreed that all its future green targets should be non-binding. So much for its green credentials.

 

[platypus]

TBH I think he'd've got this negative reaction regardless of what he brought back. The main thing people spack about is free movement of people, and that was never going to be something which could be renegotiated. What would anti-EU membership people actually have been happy with, assuming that was off the table?

I can't find it now but I said in a post a long time ago I doubted very much that this whole referendum would actually be an issue if it wasn't for the recent explosion in anti-immigration and freedom of movement.

The fact is we in the UK are entirely happy with three of the four freedoms that the EU was founded on: Capital, Services and Goods. It's the fourth one that some people dislike: Freedom of movement.

Perhaps people might just realise that the UK is not the centre of the universe. And that the other members of the EU shouldn't just agree with everything the UK's /current conservative government/ wants.

Well it isn't is it? Why should the EU ratify a treaty that gives the UK anything beneficial over themselves? Only reason I can give you at the moment is that the UK represents such an advantageous trade partner, which could entirely carry on if the UK did leave the EU.

And now you're resorting to abusing someone for not having the same opinion as you, you're having a cracking day. For what it's worth i've reported you, i think it's time to step away for a while

You managed to get the wrong end of the stick, yet again. Do you just skim read posts and not think about them? Why am I not surprised?

 

[b0redj0rd]

You managed to get the wrong end of the stick, yet again. Do you just skim read posts and not think about them? Why am I not surprised?

Well to be fair, you called me retarded for my opinion which is based on my own experiences.

Water off a platypuses back, regardless.

 

[platypus]

Well to be fair, you called me retarded for my opinion which is based on my own experiences.

Water off a platypuses back, regardless.

I said the logic was retarded, because you were presenting a fallacious argument, based on anecdote, as fact. This needed to be pointed out.

However, if I upset you, I apologise.

 

[b0redj0rd]

Nice edit. Really, no need to apologize.

- I suppose this is an emotive subject.

 

[robgmun]

I said the logic was retarded, because you were presenting a fallacious argument, based on anecdote, as fact. This needed to be pointed out.
.

You also called him a "Little Man"

I didn't skim read it, in fact i had to read it twice because i couldn't believe what you said the first time round. Your attempt to be funny is pathetic and embarrassing for you

 

[b0redj0rd]

You also called him a "Little Man"

I didn't skim read it, in fact i had to read it twice because i couldn't believe what you said the first time round. Your attempt to be funny is pathetic and embarrassing for you

Sorry Rob, I appreciate the fact that you've posted in my defense but I did say the same to Platypus (first I have to admit) on the basis he seemed very annoyed with my first post.

I don't want to flood an interesting thread with pointless arguments so I would appreciate it if we can get back to the subject at hand. Mods please feel free to remove as you see fit.