What happens if, as seems likely unless I am misreading things, Cameron's proposal is rejected by the other countries? Are there counter proposals or does the referendum just go ahead based on status quo? Are there any opinion polls on the result if no renegotiation is possible?
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
- Thread starter RJC
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The referendum will go ahead regardless.
What would need to be done in order to address tax avoidance? I think you'll find that I'm quite keen on cutting down on tax avoidance. I just don't see why we need to tackle it before we can tackle any other problems - are the cuts in government that severe that it can now only do one thing at a time?
You need need a common EU fiscal policy.
I'm not saying it's deliberate, but law makers in Brussels always assume that European style benefits systems are in place everywhere when they make new laws that we must follow. The UK never gets listened to in Brussels it seems so they pass these laws ignoring us and so our system has to change or it gets abused.
What is the biggest issue then Scorza?
If you do leave the EU and all it's Economic Benefits what will you replace it with.
The UK is walking into minefield here with a blindfold on.
It's a hodge podge of misinformation and gripes most of which should be placed at the UK government's door but have been shifted sideways by a feeble government.
"Brussels made me do it" seems to be the standard phrase by the UK government and media.
Doesn't the UK have any influence in Europe? It actually does, it's one of the main members of the EU and blaming Europe seems to be the easy way out.
Based on the majority posts in this forum it's clear no one really has a clue why there even is a referendum in the first place.
The biggest issue is that I want British laws passed in the British parliament and not in Brussels.
I quite like having a sustainable universal benefits system, so I propose that if we leave the EU we keep that.
Part of the problem with Brussels is that they never listen to us, e.g. we told them that it wasn't appropriate for Jean-Claude Juncker to become the president of the EC following a massive anti-EU vote in the 2014 European Elections. They like spending our money though.
Isn't there talk of international taxation laws anyway?
Tackling global capitalism taxation isn't just a EU problem, it's a world wide one.
Not that I'm against a common EU fiscal policy anyway, it does seem odd to not have that already for the countries who have monetary union.
I agree but at the minute we have the likes of Google who are based in Ireland yet work out of London and move money within the EU to avoid tax.
So what about countries that aren't in the EU? I'd say the solution to the issue of tax avoidance first and foremost is that governments need to acquire the will to actually tackle it. Working with other governments is important for sure, but ultimately money made in the UK should be taxed in the UK and so ensuring this is done fairly is within the gift of the UK government.
This.
I have no problem with immigration as long as it's at an appropriate scale. At present we have an aging population with less people in work but importing workers from the EU only delays the inevitable and benefits the wealthy who exploit cheap labour.
It really doesn't mean a damn though when we're letting in too many non-EU citizens as well.
Our system is not getting abused and there's nothing about our system that requires change any more than any other EU nation.
The vast majority of UK law is decided in the British parliament.
There is absolutely nothing about being in the EU that, in any way shape or form, stops us having universal benefits. In reality much of the EU has more generous benefits than we do.
Right, so the EU parliament should have ignored the wishes of all the other voters who supported Juncker and - critically - understood that this was what they were voting for in the EU elections. Every other country in the EU understood that who was President of the EC would be decided by the elections, but our media was inexplicably quiet about it. Why should the voice of those millions of voters be ignored because Cameron says so?
Britain would also have considerably more influence in the EU parliament if we stopped sending the poo-flinging monkeys from UKIP to sit in parliament.
Actually, though, Juncker is a great example of Cameron's utter incompetence in Europe. If he'd kept the Tories within the EPP he would have had the political clout within the group to stop Juncker being chosen as their candidate; instead he chose to move the Tories to sit with a bunch of disreputable xenophobes.
This is my point - I want to largely keep what we have at the moment; a benefit system that is fit for Britain.
EU law currently sits above UK law - we have to comply with what Brussels tells and unlike certain EU countries actually do comply with it.
EU law states that we have to offer the same benefits to EU citizens that we offer to UK citizens. Now a founding principle of our universal benefits system is that people who haven't contributed to it may still receive benefits - this particularly helps young people and housewives and is based on the understanding that the parents of the young people, and husbands of the housewives will contribute and won't mind their loved ones receiving said benefits. When you suddenly erode UK sovereignty and say that other people with no links at all to the UK are entitled to go and live in the UK and receive UK benefits though, that's when the principle of the system fails and you run the risk of it becoming unsustainable.
Why is it that the people who are most in favour of the EU understand the least about its workings? The European Council, that's the heads of the 28 member states have to approve the European Parliament's choice of president of the European Commission. I'm told that in private, there was a clear majority in the council to block Juncker's appointment as they knew he wasn't appropriate, however to keep Merkel happy they approved the appointment and made sure Cameron was humiliated. I believe that if they had blocked Juncker then a Remain vote would have been a foregone conclusion in this referendum.
That might have been one of the founding principles of our benefits system but it's no longer the case. For example, young people are now denied housing benefit. The reason that this change happened was because it was popular with the Tory-voting public. The change had nothing to do with the EU.
Leaving the EU isn't going to improve the situation. Sadly, the general feeling in Britain is that benefits are too generous - whether they're paid to immigrants or British nationals.
What laws?
There's good and bad points to the EU, but that's the same with all Governments. Some of the items the EU have forced upon us (such as data roaming, better emissions/safety standards for cars) have been beneficial but a lot of it is frankly crap.
It's a shame there doesn't seem to be an 'impartial' view from anyone discussing the pro's and cons. Everyones either tainted with the leave brush (immigrants this, laws that) or blinded by how wonderful and essential is.
I'm on the fence, though gun to head I'd probably vote to stay mainly due to the whole 'Fear of the Unknown' scenario
It's a shame there doesn't seem to be an 'impartial' view from anyone discussing the pro's and cons. Everyones either tainted with the leave brush (immigrants this, laws that) or blinded by how wonderful and essential is.
I'm on the fence, though gun to head I'd probably vote to stay mainly due to the whole 'Fear of the Unknown' scenario
Working Time Directive, Health and safety........
If we leave, trade with companies in the EU will continue given how large our economy is. It might change over time but its a case of supply and demand in the end so deals will be made
I say we should leave and see how it goes to be honest - in 10-20 years ifs its not for us then we can rejoin but set some terms then
Those proposing the end of the world if we leave are scaremongering if you ask me
I say we should leave and see how it goes to be honest - in 10-20 years ifs its not for us then we can rejoin but set some terms then
Those proposing the end of the world if we leave are scaremongering if you ask me
Do you think the EU will let is ship stuff into Europe tariff free as they do now?
See its this sort of scaremongering that hacks me off
Given you are 100% right and can point to somewhere which spells out that's whats going to happen I'll bow to you judgement.
Who cares anyway - we will buy and sell to other countries then like the rest of the world. Except the rules of supply and demand will still apply and we will still be trading with the EU - tariffs or not.
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