Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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How about a balanced view rather than a one sided worst case this is definitely whats going to happen

Yes they might impose trade tariffs but then they might not or they might come to an arrangement, also other non EU opportunities may come up as a result of it.

No one knows whats going to happen - all im saying is why not have a crack at doing our own thing for a while
 
OldCoals said:
Do you think the EU will let is ship stuff into Europe tariff free as they do now?
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If they want us to let them ship stuff into the UK tariff free as well then I guess they would want to. The balance moves around a bit, but in December we exported £10bn to the EU and imported £17bn
 
Tunney said:
That might have been one of the founding principles of our benefits system but it's no longer the case. For example, young people are now denied housing benefit. The reason that this change happened was because it was popular with the Tory-voting public. The change had nothing to do with the EU.

Leaving the EU isn't going to improve the situation. Sadly, the general feeling in Britain is that benefits are too generous - whether they're paid to immigrants or British nationals.
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Yes but the point is that it should be the British parliament that decides what is an appropriate benefit system for Britain. Even though I disagree with it I acknowledge that Parliament has the right to change that benefit accordingly. How would we feel if we remain in the EU and 20 years down the line it's the European Parliament telling us for example, that we may no longer pay child tax credits to people? I know our government recently tried to pull this stunt, and it was thanks to public pressure that they eventually backed down - I'm not so sure that the MEPs in Brussels would be so bothered by a British voter backlash.
 
OldCoals said:
Why is that scaremongering?
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Your question implies that you think they won't let the UK trade tariff free with the EU in the event of a Brexit. Care to tell us why? Without detailing your analysis it does reek a bit of empty-scaremongering.
 
jimjamuk said:
How about a balanced view rather than a one sided worst case this is definitely whats going to happen

Yes they might impose trade tariffs but then they might not or they might come to an arrangement, also other non EU opportunities may come up as a result of it.

No one knows whats going to happen - all im saying is why not have a crack at doing our own thing for a while
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But we should all accept that renegotiating trade tariffs is a risk to the economy, no?
 
The tariff argument also works both ways as we are subject by what the EU currently set on our imports and we could change them as we please once out.

Let's say product X is badly needed in the UK but abundant and provides a lot of jobs across Europe. The EU will want to protect that industry and so introduce tariffs from imports from the rest of the world, hence we'd be forced to use the EU's tariff free supply instead of being able to offer the US, China, India etc a tariff free import scheme and let them compete for our business.
 
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marshalex said:
Exactly. The EU have done more for workers and consumer rights than any UK Government ever have. I fear that a Brexit will allow our current overlords to water these down again
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Then the people of the UK have the opportunity to vote for a Corbyn lead government who would certainly bring them back.

I've never understood the argument of "I don't like the democratic decision my compatriots have made and therefore I'll support a largely unaccountable organisation as they will overturn them".

Furthermore, could the left wing not argue that a Brexit may actually massively damage the Tories and put Labour in power for years using this logic. Afterall, would as many people still vote Conservative if they knew a generally socialist EU wasn't in place to prevent their more extreme ideals?
 
scorza said:
This is my point - I want to largely keep what we have at the moment; a benefit system that is fit for Britain.
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And there's absolutely nothing about the EU that means it needs changing; this is a fantasy of your own making.

EU law currently sits above UK law - we have to comply with what Brussels tells and unlike certain EU countries actually do comply with it.
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In those areas where we agreed that it does. Are you saying we shouldn't honour our international treaties?

EU law states that we have to offer the same benefits to EU citizens that we offer to UK citizens.
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Just as UK citizens get benefits in EU countries, and currently claim them in large numbers.

Now a founding principle of our universal benefits system is that people who haven't contributed to it may still receive benefits - this particularly helps young people and housewives and is based on the understanding that the parents of the young people, and husbands of the housewives will contribute and won't mind their loved ones receiving said benefits. When you suddenly erode UK sovereignty and say that other people with no links at all to the UK are entitled to go and live in the UK and receive UK benefits though, that's when the principle of the system fails and you run the risk of it becoming unsustainable.
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EU citizens, on average, claim less and contribute more than British citizens while UK citizens enjoy reciprocal arrangements across Europe. How is this undermining our system? The amount of money we spend on benefits as a proportion of GDP has not gone up, how is it suddenly unsustainable?

The European Council, that's the heads of the 28 member states have to approve the European Parliament's choice of president of the European Commission.
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They do. However, like most legal systems in the world there are a number of extralegal agreements and understandings that form an important part of the de facto rules of operation. It was widely understood in Europe that the EU elections would determine the new president.

I'm told that in private, there was a clear majority in the council to block Juncker's appointment as they knew he wasn't appropriate, however to keep Merkel happy they approved the appointment and made sure Cameron was humiliated. I believe that if they had blocked Juncker then a Remain vote would have been a foregone conclusion in this referendum.
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Merkel was quite happy to block Juncker until it became clear that the wider electorate would be deeply unimpressed by their wishes being veto'd. As for Cameron being humiliated: it was only his own utter incompetence in Europe that led to him picking a fight he was going to lose and could - if he hadn't incompetently pulled the Tories out of the EPP - easily have blocked with better diplomatic decision making. Don't mistake Cameron's ineptitude for a wider inability of Britain to get good results from Europe.
 
stewski said:
But we should all accept that renegotiating trade tariffs is a risk to the economy, no?
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Everything is a risk to the economy - sometimes that's in our control sometimes not. If we leave the EU at least more risks will be in our own hands rather than someone else. I don't think the economic argument for the EU Brexit is one that many people give 10 seconds of thought to be honest.

Adapt and survive - fastest gowing EU country since the recession so it snot like we are complete muppets when it comes to the economy
 
jimjamuk said:
How about a balanced view rather than a one sided worst case this is definitely whats going to happen

Yes they might impose trade tariffs but then they might not or they might come to an arrangement, also other non EU opportunities may come up as a result of it.

No one knows whats going to happen - all im saying is why not have a crack at doing our own thing for a while
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Hypothetical, who has the most bargaining power with China, the UK on its own or the EU?
 
scorza said:
Your question implies that you think they won't let the UK trade tariff free with the EU in the event of a Brexit. Care to tell us why? Without detailing your analysis it does reek a bit of empty-scaremongering.
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Why would they? it is naive to think they are going to let us ship stuff in and undercut them.
 
OldCoals said:
Hypothetical, who has the most bargaining power with China, the UK on its own or the EU?
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It doesn't matter - we will negotiate our own deals outside the EU as far as I'm concerned but they will continue to buy our goods and us theirs

I'm going to keep saying "supply and demand" - that's what defines most negotiations
 
OK given the answer you want to hear is "no" then the answer is no

It still doesn't change my view on the EU - I accept that we wont have the collective bargaining power but I have faith that we would adapt and fill any shortfall in our own way
 
OldCoals said:
I have no doubt we could, but would we have the bargaining power of a collective Europe?
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Seeing that the UK representatives are told to leave the room when negotiations start we don't have any bargaining powers at all, and no say as to what deal is good for us or not.
 
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