Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[setter]

A lot of companies that i work with do indeed employ lots of migrant workers, and theese are skilled guys. But the companies bring them in, pay them the minimum wage which often is half of what they pay a local guy. It's fine by the firm as they are meeting the legal requirement to pay the set down minimum wage. But, imho it is a form of exploitation by employers. And then of course it does annoy the local guy who is used to more money. In my opinion, you should receive the same pay based on your skills/ability no matter where you come from in the eu. Better pay and conditions for all will always result in a better workforce.

 

[Woden]

A lot of companies that i work with do indeed employ lots of migrant workers, and theese are skilled guys. But the companies bring them in, pay them the minimum wage which often is half of what they pay a local guy. It's fine by the firm as they are meeting the legal requirement to pay the set down minimum wage. But, imho it is a form of exploitation by employers. And then of course it does annoy the local guy who is used to more money. In my opinion, you should receive the same pay based on your skills/ability no matter where you come from in the eu. Better pay and conditions for all will always result in a better workforce.

I'm sticking with what I said. If you are unemployed and refuse to do a minimum wage job, you will lose your JSA.

 

[setter]

I'm sticking with what I said. If you are unemployed and refuse to do a minimum wage job, you will lose your JSA.

Id agree, as someone who has worked for 22 years straight, never been on benefits. You shouldnt be allowed to pick and choose wether to work or not. If you do not want to work, cut the jsa off.

I see a lot of young guys in my area who are only too happy to sit at home and collect benefits, no interest in working. Yes, i can understand those on disability and not able to do physical work. They are genuine cases. I come from a family with a very solid work ethic so it' kinda ingrained into me.

 

[Freakbro]

Moreover, if this is a primary concern then it is easily dealt with by making it illegal to spay immigrants

It's not illegal already to spay immigrants?!?

 

[Tefal]

Moreover, if this is a primary concern then it is easily dealt with by making it illegal to spay immigrants a salary below the local area average for that job. This is done in the US for example.

that would be illegal under EU discrimination laws.

EU migrants cannot be treated differently to UK citizens

 

[Danthus]

What you are ignoring norm supply and demand is the word demand, oh, and the fact that economics is much more complex than that. For starters there is a national minimum wage which makes a tight lower bound on salaries.

With an almost unlimited supply of labour, I find it hard to believe their is no negative affect on wages.

Moreover, if this is a primary concern then it is easily dealt with by making it illegal to spay immigrants a salary below the local area average for that job. This is done in the US for example. people with concern about immigration should then be chasing the government down to put in place such legislation that protects them, rather than going after the immigrants who are net positive contributors.

Ironically, in order to do that, it would mean more regulation is required within the EU, exactly the opposite of what the out campaigners want.

This also ignores the fact that European migrants have a bimodal distribution of skills, there are both low skilled workers and highly educated highly skilled professionals. An immigrant is just as likely to be earning 70K a year working for an investment bank in London as they are picking fruit for minimum wage. On average, European migrants are more highly educated and skilled than British workers.

I would go some way yo agree wth you there, Bentley being a good example in Crewe. However lots of those people are from Germany.

About 11% of the population of Crewe is now made up of Polish people, Crewe has long standing ties with Poland going back to the war. They are filling up lots of unskilled, low paid warehouse style work.

There is a massive issue in Crewe with HMO's, some of these people are being exploited in the sense that they are living in quote bad conditions, rubbish and fly tipping is currently a massive issue and it is causing tensions locally.

Last week there was a fight in a school which made the national press, for the record the reporting is shocking, but it has brought to the surface local tensions.

 

[deuse]

that would be illegal under EU discrimination laws.

EU migrants cannot be treated differently to UK citizens

The only reason D.P sways towards the gimmigrents because he is one.

 

[scorza]

Just on the issue of the migration economics, I find this and this to be an interesting read:

• There is no evidence of any significant economic benefit to the UK population from current levels of immigration, certainly compared to their effect on our population
• Immigration to the UK has resulted in a high cost to the UK Exchequer of at least £114 billion, or about £18m a day, in the period 1995-2011
• By contrast, a moderate level of mainly skilled immigration would be a natural part of an open economy and society

• The number of East Europeans in the UK has increased by nearly one million since 2004.
• Net migration from the EU15 doubled since 2012 to nearly 180,000 per year.
• The economic benefit of EU migration has been greatly exaggerated, especially in respect of East Europeans who are mostly in low paid employment.

...
The fiscal contribution of all EU migrants is estimated to be around zero, meaning that EU migrants pay about as much in tax as they take in benefits.

 

[thep02]

Most of the eu countries wanted to have controlled limited migration and other integration law limits over the east European countries which weren't actually ready to comply with eu norms but the moron atlantacists in London insisted on fast tracking them all through in the thought that it would stop pro Russia moves in the eu and give london anti Russia allies in committees, usual london moron short sightedness exhibited.

 

[platypus]

Indeed. At least, give them the option of claiming asylum in France or being deported - The current situation seems only to affect the citizens of Calais in a very negative way.

I think a likely outcome in the future, should the uk leave, is that the army will clear out le Jungle, and it won't be to the benefit of the UK..

I hope that's not a serious question, that has already been discussed to absolute death in many threads, of course it'll up to PM and the one we have is wet fish but the alternative is a complete marxist lunatic so we'll need the PM in power to stop succumbing to populist left wing media pressure and do what he has been mandated to do and can immigration and get to the 10's of thousands like he promised in the first place, when out of the EU we can choose who can come in from anywhere in the world and set our criteria properly. Only UKIP at the moment is outspoken to how they would actually do it

So you don't have an answer then, its fine to say so. I'm well aware the UKIP propose a points based immigration system, I'm asking about how you think the physical logistics will work, because I for one can't see our border force suddenly become effective overnight.

The reason I asked is because it's an unknown, however one scenario that there is a very real possibility that once we get removed from the Dublin agreement, and France move their border back from Calais to Dover, 'le Jungle' will effectively get moved over here.

What if they are here legally?

Well thats ok. Rob is from an immigrant family, with an immigrant wife, but thats his situation so it's ok, he's got his! Just stop the other immigrants coming in.

The only reason D.P sways towards the gimmigrents because he is one.

Do people using this word think its clever? Do you chuckle and pat yourselves on the back every time you use it?

 

[platypus]

Most of the eu countries wanted to have controlled limited migration and other integration law limits over the east European countries which weren't actually ready to comply with eu norms but the moron atlantacists in London insisted on fast tracking them all through in the thought that it would stop pro Russia moves in the eu and give london anti Russia allies in committees, usual london moron short sightedness exhibited.

Communism: the root of all evil .

 

[Mr Jack]

Just on the issue of the migration economics, I find this and this to be an interesting read:

Interesting indeed. At the end of that first link there's this section:

In 2014, the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at UCL produced a finalised paper on the overall impact of migration from all countries between 1995 and 2011. Their findings were that immigrants in the UK had resulted in an overall fiscal cost of between £114bn and £159bn over the period. (See here)​

Which links to this pdf. Neither the figures £114bn nor £159bn appear in that report, what does appear in their conclusions is this:

We thus conclude that the recent wave of immigrants, those who have arrived in the UK since 2000 and driven the stark increase in the UK’s foreign born population, have contributed far more in taxes than they have received in benefits. Moreover, by sharing the cost of fixed public expenditures (which account for more than 14% of total public expenditure), they have reduced the financial burden of these fixed public obligations for natives​

as well as several other statements confirming the benefits of EU migration. Seems to me that Migration Watch UK are not being honest with their sources.

 

[thep02]

Communism: the root of all evil .

If only it were so, evil has a tangled web of roots communism merely one of many, greed has a good call on being the tap root though.

 

[Freakbro]

Interesting indeed. At the end of that first link there's this section:

In 2014, the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at UCL produced a finalised paper on the overall impact of migration from all countries between 1995 and 2011. Their findings were that immigrants in the UK had resulted in an overall fiscal cost of between £114bn and £159bn over the period. (See here)​

Which links to this pdf. Neither the figures £114bn nor £159bn appear in that report, what does appear in their conclusions is this:

We thus conclude that the recent wave of immigrants, those who have arrived in the UK since 2000 and driven the stark increase in the UK’s foreign born population, have contributed far more in taxes than they have received in benefits. Moreover, by sharing the cost of fixed public expenditures (which account for more than 14% of total public expenditure), they have reduced the financial burden of these fixed public obligations for natives​

as well as several other statements confirming the benefits of EU migration. Seems to me that Migration Watch UK are not being honest with their sources.

Who knows what to believe anymore.....

 

[The Running Man]

Interesting indeed. At the end of that first link there's this section:

In 2014, the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at UCL produced a finalised paper on the overall impact of migration from all countries between 1995 and 2011. Their findings were that immigrants in the UK had resulted in an overall fiscal cost of between £114bn and £159bn over the period. (See here)​

Which links to this pdf. Neither the figures £114bn nor £159bn appear in that report, what does appear in their conclusions is this:

We thus conclude that the recent wave of immigrants, those who have arrived in the UK since 2000 and driven the stark increase in the UK’s foreign born population, have contributed far more in taxes than they have received in benefits. Moreover, by sharing the cost of fixed public expenditures (which account for more than 14% of total public expenditure), they have reduced the financial burden of these fixed public obligations for natives​

as well as several other statements confirming the benefits of EU migration. Seems to me that Migration Watch UK are not being honest with their sources.

What that doesn't take into account is that these jobs are not incremental as such. We still have 1.x million unemployed who are claiming benefits.

The most cost effective solution is to get them working and not have immigrants coming as that way you lower the overall cost of care and benefit payments while keeping more money inside the economy and not as much is being withdrawn. It's all very simple.

 

[scorza]

Interesting indeed. At the end of that first link there's this section:

In 2014, the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration (CReAM) at UCL produced a finalised paper on the overall impact of migration from all countries between 1995 and 2011. Their findings were that immigrants in the UK had resulted in an overall fiscal cost of between £114bn and £159bn over the period. (See here)​

Which links to this pdf. Neither the figures £114bn nor £159bn appear in that report, what does appear in their conclusions is this:

We thus conclude that the recent wave of immigrants, those who have arrived in the UK since 2000 and driven the stark increase in the UK’s foreign born population, have contributed far more in taxes than they have received in benefits. Moreover, by sharing the cost of fixed public expenditures (which account for more than 14% of total public expenditure), they have reduced the financial burden of these fixed public obligations for natives​

as well as several other statements confirming the benefits of EU migration. Seems to me that Migration Watch UK are not being honest with their sources.

The fiscal impact figures appear in Table A-6 (I think lol) - you'll have to add them up yourself to see if they come to between £114bn and £159bn. This is that dodgy report done by the same discredited academic at UCL who said the UK would receive 13,000 immigrants from Poland. The problems with it are detailed here: http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/347

Overall cost of migration

1. Between 1995 and 2011 the fiscal cost of migrants in the UK was at least £115 billion and possibly as much as £160 billion according to a report from the Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration headed by Professor Christian Dustmann at University College, London. The report found that migrants in the UK were a fiscal cost in every year examined.[1]

Contribution of ‘recent migrants’

2. The report claims that migrants who had arrived in the UK since 2000 had made positive contributions throughout the period from 2001 to 2011. This does not appear to be correct, the figures in the paper show that the contribution from these recent migrants was negative in each year after 2008.

Contribution of ‘recent A10 migrants’

3. The authors also highlighted a finding that between 2001 and 2011 recent migrants from Eastern Europe had made a net contribution of £5bn. While this correctly reports their most optimistic finding, their calculations in four alternative scenarios were all lower. One of these alone was enough to reduce the contribution to as little as £0.066bn – a sum within the margin of error of such calculations.

4. In addition, the very large fiscal cost of immigration overall is compounded by the cost of congestion and loss of amenity caused by our rapidly rising population.

 

[stewski]

Communism: the root of all evil .

What communism, china are the most successful capitalists of recent times

 

[robgmun]

So you don't have an answer then, its fine to say so. I'm well aware the UKIP propose a points based immigration system, I'm asking about how you think the physical logistics will work, because I for one can't see our border force suddenly become effective overnight

Of course i have an answer, we did it to death during the general election, so don't be so glib. But because you have a rubbish memory i guess i'll to say it again, the border force is effective otherwise the Jungle would be empty and we'd be swamped by ***********, it's just they are under-staffed and under-funded. UKIP suggested a solution by increasing their funding and hiring more from ex-police, ex-military and ex-prison guides, which are many are unemployed right now.

The reason I asked is because it's an unknown, however one scenario that there is a very real possibility that once we get removed from the Dublin agreement, and France move their border back from Calais to Dover, 'le Jungle' will effectively get moved over here.

That has a snowballs chance in hell in happing platypus and you know it, the uproar, the riots and field battles that would happen. The PM knows he would lose his job in an instant and you worry about the rise of the far-right in the UK now? Just wait and see what would happen if they try to move the Jungle over here. Brits are a patient and tolerant lot, but if gimmirants try to treat people in the UK like they have in Calais, they'll learn the true meaning of regret when the at the receiving end of a hiding.

Well thats ok. Rob is from an immigrant family, with an immigrant wife, but thats his situation so it's ok, he's got his! Just stop the other immigrants coming in.

I've already put this facility to bed, but as you have a rubbish memory i will repeat, i'm not against immigration, i'm pro controlled immigration, please get it right, you're going to remember it right? Good, glad we have this chat

Do people using this word think its clever? Do you chuckle and pat yourselves on the back every time you use it?

Probably not as much as D.P when he gets a tingle in his lady parts when he calls someone a xenophobie. The cuckoldary on display from posters like him on here beggars belief. But i like the least is that he up sticks and moved to the US but can still vote on UK matters, that should be removed from him after 3 years not 15. And returned to him once he's back. This is why i mention it.

 

[Freakbro]

That has a snowballs chance in hell in happing Freakbro and you know it,

Hmm, what did I say now?

 

[robgmun]

Hmm, what did I say now?

You're willing to put cold hard cash on it?

Ok, i will pledge £50 to a charity of your choice if the Jungle gets moved to the UK. And you pledge £50 to UKIP if we leave the EU and it doesn't happen by the end of 2017

What do you say?

EDIT - God you all sound the same so i got confused as to who i was replying too , but the bets stands!