Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[Tunney]

As is their obligation according to the Geneva Convention. The alone is giving £1.2bn to support refugees from Syria, including support to Turkey. Besides, I thought Turkey was now in receipt of $billions from the EU to support refugees locally?

The money that's actually been received - rather than just promised - isn't enough. Turkey is still billions in the red from this.

Yes, this is Turkey's obligation under the Geneva Convention but it's unrealistic to expect them to cope on their own. No country of Turkey's size could cope with 2.2+ million refugees even with generous financial aid.

If your neighbour's house is on fire, you help put it out for your own sake. Turkey is rightly angry that other countries have buried their heads in the sand about the situation.

 

[Freakbro]

Lebanon also has over 1 million iirc, which is ~25% of the entire population!

Jordan has ~700,000

And like you say, people here moan about a few thousand

 

[scorza]

Lebanon also has over 1 million iirc, which is ~25% of the entire population!

Jordan has ~700,000

And like you say, people here moan about a few thousand

Both of which have received considerable financial aid from the UK foreign aid budget specifically for the Syrian crisis. Turkey less so, which doesn't really make sense, maybe Erdogan thinks he loses face if he accepts too much aid from the developed world. As this is an EU thread, I wonder how many other EU countries have reached the 0.7% GDP foreign target...

 

[Mr Jack]

As this is an EU thread, I wonder how many other EU countries have reached the 0.7% GDP foreign target...

Norway*, Sweden, Denmark, Luxenbourg, and the Netherlands**.

* - not in the EU, just the EEC and various treaties.
** - Not in 2015 but has in previous years.

 

[The Running Man]

Turkey has taken in at least 2.2 million refugees. It's costing them billions a year and they're not getting the help they need from the international community. I'm not surprised that they're angry.

And people here moan about taking in a few thousand.

I thought immigrants would be good for their economy?

 

[Dis86]

I thought immigrants would be good for their economy?

 

[Mr Jack]

I thought immigrants would be good for their economy?

Refugees are not immigrants. Apart from anything else: they're not permitted to work.

 

[The Running Man]

Refugees are not immigrants. Apart from anything else: they're not permitted to work.

Most are economic immigrants - not refugees from Syria.

if immigrants in Europe are so profitable, why aren't other countries fighting for them? Shouldn't there be campaigns across Europe to get as many as possible? We should bd being out competed by countries offering better benefits than us?

 

[kitch9]

Actually the movement of "people as commodities", to meet economic demand, could be seen as quite right wing thinking.

Its very right wing, but the left defend it feverishly and I don't understand why.

 

[Tunney]

Most are economic immigrants - not refugees from Syria.

I would wager that the vast majority of the estimated 2.5 million people living in camps on the border between Turkey and Syria are genuine refugees.

 

[kitch9]

Like I said before. If your unemployed and refuse to do a low paid job, you lose your JSA. So the jobs should be filled anyway.

The type of people with that mindset would refuse jobs anyway. Your point is completely different to what I was saying.

I'm talking about simple supply and demand, the very fundamentals all economics is built on, like Einsteins theory of relativity is to physics.

 

[Freakbro]

Most are economic immigrants - not refugees from Syria.

I don't know where you get that idea from, well I do, but can't say else I'd get a suspension

There are more than 4 million Syrian refugees who have left the country during this civil war, the *vast* majority of which have gone to Turkey - 2.2M, Lebanon - 1.1M and Jordan - 700K

It's only after a few years of being in these camps, that are now failing, that they have started to leave them and push into Europe.

This is the problem with talking about the Refugee crisis is that people incorrectly conflate the issue with illegal and economic migrants, that are a separate matter.

 

[Mr Jack]

I'm talking about simple supply and demand, the very fundamentals all economics is built on, like Einsteins theory of relativity is to physics.

Supply and demand is a woefully ineffective model for employment because the demand is driven up so much by the supply. People working in jobs create demand that creates new jobs.

 

[scorza]

Supply and demand is a woefully ineffective model for employment because the demand is driven up so much by the supply. People working in jobs create demand that creates new jobs.

Supply and demand is about finding the price* of something, not about one creating the other. If supply of labour rises faster than the demand for labour then the price goes down - simples. You keep repeating this theory you have that the more we increase the supply of labour then the more demand for that labour there will be, but that's far too simplistic to be taken seriously and the sort of logic you'd get in a ponzi scheme. What about productivity? Productivity has collapsed in the UK because of the over-supply of labour. Why should we care? Because productivity is an important measure of how advanced an economy is and determines things like people's living standards.

*Price includes terms and conditions, not just wages.

 

[Dave M]

Productivity has collapsed in the UK because of the over-supply of labour. .

Actually productivity hasn't collapsed at all, some sectors are making far less money (finance/banking) which pulls down the total.

Service sectors have increased productivity slightly (not bad given the human resource intensive nature of most service industries) and manufacturing much more.

 

[Freakbro]

What about productivity? Productivity has collapsed in the UK because of the over-supply of labour. Why should we care? Because productivity is an important measure of how advanced an economy is and determines things like people's living standards

I don't think anyone knows why productivity collapsed so badly in the UK especially while employment increased, that's why the BOE call it the 'Productivity Puzzle'

It's certainly not as simple as over supply of labour

 

[Dave M]

I don't think anyone knows why productivity collapsed so badly in the UK especially while employment increased, that's why the BOE call it the 'Productivity Puzzle'

It's certainly not as simple as over supply of labour

Puzzle indeed

Contribution to change in labour productivity between Q 1 2008 and Q 2 2014 (percentage points)


other industry includes oil+gas.

So the financial services industry has taken a beating, and the oil price tanked - both reducing profits and thus productivity in those sectors even with (some) job cuts.

*Edit: source http://www.cbi.org.uk/better-off-britain/productivity.html

 

[Mr Jack]

Supply and demand is about finding the price* of something, not about one creating the other. If supply of labour rises faster than the demand for labour then the price goes down - simples. You keep repeating this theory you have that the more we increase the supply of labour then the more demand for that labour there will be, but that's far too simplistic to be taken seriously and the sort of logic you'd get in a ponzi scheme. What about productivity? Productivity has collapsed in the UK because of the over-supply of labour. Why should we care? Because productivity is an important measure of how advanced an economy is and determines things like people's living standards.

*yawn* Yet the actual, empirical, evidence shows time and time again that there is no overall link between increased immigration and wages*, employment rates, and productivity.


* - there is some evidence for a mild negative effect at the lowest end of the payscale but it's small.

 

[Danthus]

Has immigration boosted wages?

 

[scorza]

*yawn* Yet the actual, empirical, evidence shows time and time again that there is no overall link between increased immigration and wages*, employment rates, and productivity.


* - there is some evidence for a mild negative effect at the lowest end of the payscale but it's small.

At the lowest end of the pay scale there's the minimum wage, so it's literally impossible for the wages at that end to fall by much (and rightly so).