Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
- Start date
- Status
I think they do.
My point was that only a few posts ago Scorza was questioning the validity of academic reports only then to use a report that cites academics and academic publications to support his argument.
Because it's a bit more complicated than that.
Actually, there's nothing really surprising here. Research on the impact of immigration on wages hovers around a neutral overall impact on average wages but research looking specifically at low skilled wages tends to suggest a small negative impact. The worst affected groups are previous migrants.
The problem with blaming migrants for wage declines is that it ignores much bigger causes of much bigger losses of wages. It's a nice divide-and-conquer approach for the right.
Well my criticism of the academic reports that found immigration has no impact on wages is that they are wrong.
What are the bigger causes of much bigger losses of wages? The supply and demand model works pretty well for determining the price of something and so as supply increases at a faster rate than demand, the price goes down. Simples.
So, if the overall impact on wages is neutral and unskilled/semi-skilled workers see a 2% drop, that must mean that skilled/professional workers see a 2% increase in their salaries?
Sounds good to me!
So we've given up on the notion of social justice have we?
I was joking, as you might have been able to tell from the
at the end of my comment. It is interesting that wages do increase for skilled/professional workers though. If you're middle-class and interested only in yourself, immigration is a wonderful thing from a financial point-of-view.The tax system can always be rebalanced to make the effect neutral for each group though.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2012
- Posts
- 11,698
- Location
- Surrey
Why would you do that when you can continue to overtax the poorer people so that they pay way, way, way more tax relative to disposable income and just convince the disgruntled masses that its the foreigners fault.
I was joking, as you might have been able to tell from the
The tax system can always be rebalanced to make the effect neutral for each group though.
I dunno about being middle-class, but high earners certainly benefit from high levels of immigration - those who employ other people, can afford to live in gated communities in London etc. This has never been denied by the managed immigration proponents - we all knew it was low earners who would suffer the most.
Taking a longer look at that report, it makes clear why its findings are different to previous studies. Previous studies have focused on native wages whereas this report looked at average wages (native + immigrant).
So, there's still seemingly no impact on British workers.
So, there's still seemingly no impact on British workers.
Collapse of Trade Union membership; general weakening of employees in employee:employer relations; out-sourcing of low end jobs; removal of effective upward pathways and so forth.
Supply and demand is woefully inadequete to understand employment.
Soldato
- Joined
- 8 Mar 2007
- Posts
- 10,938
All of which are partly caused by foreign-cheap labour though.
Do you think someone who's just arrived in the country, and can get a job on far more than they would get at home, is likely to want to join a Union? Do you think having workforces that are largely unable to communicate with the management teams because of differing languages is going to weaken/strengthen general day-to-day relations?
What about the increased demand for housing, services, etc.
Wages might stay the same, but if net immigration contributes to increased housing pressure/ prices then you're still worse off.
So you still need to either reduce net immigration or increase supply of houses and services. We're apparently failing hard to do the latter, largely because the supply of housing is dependent on the private sector to fulfil. They won't build until demand is so great that their eyes light up with $ signs.
Wages might stay the same, but if net immigration contributes to increased housing pressure/ prices then you're still worse off.
So you still need to either reduce net immigration or increase supply of houses and services. We're apparently failing hard to do the latter, largely because the supply of housing is dependent on the private sector to fulfil. They won't build until demand is so great that their eyes light up with $ signs.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2012
- Posts
- 11,698
- Location
- Surrey
A lot of issues related to housing and lower paid wages are not the fault of immigrants and we should not fool ourselves into thinking that if there were no immigrants then suddenly rent would be affordable, there would be loads of housing prices and everyone would have adequate disposable income.
What needs to be tackled can be done without leaving the EU. Rent prices need to be regulated and there should be stricter regulations upon purchasing multiple properties, doing away with buy-to-let mortgages altogether. Since they were introduced, house prices have been crazy and rent has in turn increased because people are less able to afford house deposits and have no choice but to rent, giving money to those who already have properties and already earn 25k+ without the income from rented out house.
With more affordable housing, less demand for housing/rent (due to buy-to-let mortgages disappearing) i can only foresee that people will have a larger disposable income.
I just cannot see any drastic changes happening before this buy-to-let mortgage culture is done away with, regardless of whether we leave the EU or not.
I may be voicing a very unpopular opinion on here, as i know many of you likely do let out a second property. I just dont see why it is fair or beneficial to deny first time buyers or take advantage of those who can just about afford to rent so your already adequately filled pockets can be filled further while you continue to borrow money on a house you dont live in or need.
What needs to be tackled can be done without leaving the EU. Rent prices need to be regulated and there should be stricter regulations upon purchasing multiple properties, doing away with buy-to-let mortgages altogether. Since they were introduced, house prices have been crazy and rent has in turn increased because people are less able to afford house deposits and have no choice but to rent, giving money to those who already have properties and already earn 25k+ without the income from rented out house.
With more affordable housing, less demand for housing/rent (due to buy-to-let mortgages disappearing) i can only foresee that people will have a larger disposable income.
I just cannot see any drastic changes happening before this buy-to-let mortgage culture is done away with, regardless of whether we leave the EU or not.
I may be voicing a very unpopular opinion on here, as i know many of you likely do let out a second property. I just dont see why it is fair or beneficial to deny first time buyers or take advantage of those who can just about afford to rent so your already adequately filled pockets can be filled further while you continue to borrow money on a house you dont live in or need.
Last edited:
How does that help? We are not building enough houses.
Soldato
- Joined
- 12 Sep 2012
- Posts
- 11,698
- Location
- Surrey
It helps by massively cutting the demand for houses from people who don't need them already. The demand for houses has gone up by insane amount since by to let mortgages were introduced and whether we leave the eu or not, i believe that the demand will always remain high as long as people are able to purchase second houses without being able to afford them.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...one-in-five-homes-now-owned-by-landlords.html
Doesn't sound like much but it certainly makes up for a large amount of the demand.
I am just saying that using the property market as an excuse to leave the EU is only beneficial if other changes are made to take advantage of there being less migrants to compete in the property market or the properties will just be snapped up by people looking to rent them out for a quick buck and further driving up prices. Demand needs to be tackled on several fronts. Likewise if you were to suddenly prevent people from buying to let and some demand is reduced, you may just end up encouraging more migrants to come and settle here due to more affordable living costs.
Last edited:
Associate
- Joined
- 22 Jul 2015
- Posts
- 1,213
- Location
- Aberdeen
only stay in if we can regulate on what public services incoming EU migrants have access to. Not fair if people arrive here and can straight away claim for housing, child care, etc.
- Status