Soldato
Out, what's the worst that can happen?
Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote?
- Thread starter Ricochet J
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But we don't have 10s of millions coming over
With the current crisis how many would we have to take to eliminate it by uptake?
Germany will go way over its 1pc population increase in a year.
Will we take 600k? 1.2m?
I suspect of we took our fair share (depends on what you define as fair) we would have to add 1 to 2pc to our population just from immigration in a year
Now this is going to have to be
Paid for in benefits for the majority
Housing, which is in short supply
Plus the cultural disturbance.. Look what's going on now the free lunch has been taken away by more and more countries
Also, all the pro let them in press yet still the polls are tipping to the exit
Just shows that the majority can't shout about their views, but they can vote with them
A lot do, including some on this forum.
I wouldn't be surprised most are voting to stay for the better roaming charges.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Why not hold a referendum on everything?
Does the current tax rate have a mandate? What about funding levels for national parks? Free bus passes?
Don't we elect a government to make complex decisions on our behalf?
[TW]Fox;28579076 said:
Membership of the EU is objectively different, its the same argument that any independence referendum has, government transparency.
But this vote will rightly or wrongly be sidelined to be mainly crappy reasons pushed by a broken media.
Regardless, government said it would and you voted for them right?
The people who just say "in without doubt" I need to hear why, it comes across as steeple, even if someone give you an argument for out and it turned out stronger than I'm would you even listen?
And why are people saying there shouldn't be a referendum?
And why are people saying there shouldn't be a referendum?
can out give a definite answer on what would happen to free trade?
Exactly, we don't, much like we (the UK) won't have hundreds of thousands of settled Syrians coming over.
Asylum seekers are a different matter. As an example we can't use the excuse of forcing people to apply at the first EU country if we aren't in the EU can we...
As for the polls it seems like they are mixed, the Mori poll shows a significant stay majority.
Caporegime
In but not unconditionally.
For example, we should be willing to leave if it's the only way we can avoid joining the TTIP.
For example, we should be willing to leave if it's the only way we can avoid joining the TTIP.
Caporegime
That would be the ideal. Can't see it happening though.
at least we get to vote in our own theives!
the problem with the eu is the undemocratic nature of it - and its full of corrupt morons that we can't vote out.
Soldato
Only last year there was a vote.........
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2014_(United_Kingdom)
Agreed.[TW]Fox;28579076 said:
The problem for me with some referendums is whether people voting are able to make an educated and complex decision on the subject in question. In this case I genuinely think a great number of people voting probably won't be able to do so, but will rather vote on a 'feeling' and existing bias rather than on fact. Yes I know we live in a democracy, but we have an elected government for a reason.
In this case I think 99%+ wont be able to, should be left to a panel of experts, like everything should be. Popularity voting is terrible and not how any country should operate.
And direct democracy is even worse.
You just have to look at even basic stuff, like vacuum legislation, or banana legislation, to see how the public get it so wrong. Let alone the actual complicated stuff.
Oh and US federal EU style, would be great but not going to happen in my lifetime. I simply cannot see it happening, and I don't think it should happen in the short term, EU has a lot of evolving and growing upto do. It's a slow process that slowly adds and refines it's stretch and powers.
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The problem with that is obvious.
If people aren't competent or sufficiently informed to decide to be in or out of the EU, then they aren't competent or sufficiently informed to elect an appropriate government either. What you're apparently advodating is some sort of meritocracy where you have to pass exams to qualify as a citizen and only citizens can vote.
After all, do we elect the government that's going to choose based on fact, or on " 'feeling' and existing bias"?
And why bother with 650 politicians? Maybe we just ought to have a nationwide competition to find the most intelligent and best-informed person and just elect them as dictator to take all decisions for us?
As a principle, democracy has lots of flaws and one advantage. That advantage is that, to paraphrase an old quote, for all it's faults it's better than any other form of government that has been tried.
Caporegime
The EU can't be more democratic until it's allowed to have more power. The reason it's not fully democratic is that it's primarily an arrangement between national democratically elected governments who are unwilling to give up their powers to EU-level democracy so the democratically elected parliament lacks bite and the commissioner is chosen only semi-democratically.
There is plenty of economic reasons to stay in. Just google it.
Man of Honour
[TW]Fox;28579076 said:
I agree, but we really need a voting system which gives a good probability that my views will be represented when these decisions are made on my behalf.
Associate
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It was more beign the rape capital of the west that I woudl be concerned about. The break down of the statistics reveal some interesting relationships.
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