Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote?

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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Aldav said:
The problem with that is obvious.

If people aren't competent or sufficiently informed to decide to be in or out of the EU, then they aren't competent or sufficiently informed to elect an appropriate government either. What you're apparently advodating is some sort of meritocracy where you have to pass exams to qualify as a citizen and only citizens can vote.

After all, do we elect the government that's going to choose based on fact, or on " 'feeling' and existing bias"?

And why bother with 650 politicians? Maybe we just ought to have a nationwide competition to find the most intelligent and best-informed person and just elect them as dictator to take all decisions for us?

As a principle, democracy has lots of flaws and one advantage. That advantage is that, to paraphrase an old quote, for all it's faults it's better than any other form of government that has been tried.
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I can of course see where you are coming from, I was already expecting a similar a reply. However, I stand by my statement. I'm also not talking about all referndums. I think this one is a particular example of why certain ones just won't work. That also depends on the definition of a successul referendum - representing the views of all/making the most sound choice for the benefit of the country as a whole. This can be one and the same but in some situations may well be the opposite.

I have a feeling though both of us know our minds and understand each others point of view but really fundamentally we have differing views on the subject which are unlikely to change.
 
Mr Jack said:
That would be the ideal. Can't see it happening though.
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But why do you want this?

Why would being a state in a federal Europe be preferable to you than being our own country? You want the Euro? You want more power in a centralised EU government? You want a single EU foreign policy, etc...

Tell me, what are the advantages of closer EU integration for us in the UK?
 
I vote out.
I refuse to give up my sovereignty, some thing they (deliberately) no longer teach you about in school. If you have nothing left to fight for, you won't put up any resistance and TPTB are free to do what they want.
I'm an Englishman, not a ****ing European!
 
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Muban said:
Yes I know we live in a democracy, but we have an elected government for a reason.
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So the elected government could vote to give away its power to a non-elected body, and that would be OK?

Essentially, any govt could vote to end democracy and become a dictatorship, and you'd be fine with that? I'm guessing not.

The EU has evolved, but it will continue to evolve in future. I fear that a "yes" result doesn't just give acceptance for the EU as it stands, but will be seen as a "yes" vote to more integration and more power for the EU in future.
 
The-Plethora said:
Ah one of those lesser known "just for a laugh" rapes.
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If you look at the Sexual Offences Act 2003 and compare it with the Swedish definition, we'd only record rape for a S1 offence, but in Sweden they'd record a rape for an offence under at least 14 other sections of the SOA 2003.

There are also differences in how many crimes would be recorded for a given incident as in the UK the Home Office Counting Rules would state only one crime would be recorded where Sweden may have 2 or 3.

So like I said, you can't compare them directly.
 
FoxEye said:
So the elected government could vote to give away its power to a non-elected body, and that would be OK?
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If we're going to make silly over the top assumptions like that about my opinions then I'm out of the discussion because you clearly aren't insterested in discussing things properly. I've made it more than clear that I support democracy, if you're determined to misconstrue what I've said then there is little point in me replying.

Anyway it's going somewhat off topic now, as said previously i'm currently on the fence with regard to this referendum. Hopefully before it comes time to vote things will become clearer to me about which way to go.
 
Naff8000 said:
There is plenty of economic reasons to stay in. Just google it.
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There are plenty of good economic reasons to be a "Pampered Slave". It is just that there are many who simply would not be able to stomach it at any price and would prefer to be a"Poor Free Man"

The Economy is a fleeting thing, what is essential today is forgotten tomorrow.

The role of the economy is really, to my mind, only a minor part of this decision making process.
 
Orionaut said:
The Economy is a fleeting thing, what is essential today is forgotten tomorrow.
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This is the problem. I am in no way pro European (only the money) but that's one of the dumbest comments I've read on here and it seems many of the people in the Out group do not understand how much we have benefited from being in the EU. I don't see Cameron as snuggling up to the EU, rather I expect he'd love to be out of this club but knows just how devastating over the medium to long term an exit would be.
 
Muban said:
If we're going to make silly over the top assumptions like that about my opinions then I'm out of the discussion because you clearly aren't insterested in discussing things properly. I've made it more than clear that I support democracy, if you're determined to misconstrue what I've said then there is little point in me replying.
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On the contrary, that's exactly what is going to happen if we stay in the EU. Closer integration means more centralised control, and last time I checked, the major EU regulatory bodies aren't democratically elected by the people.
 
I vote No, Trade is fine but i dislike having my town centre being taken over by eastern European thugs, who seem to get preferential treatment from the the police to healthcare and social housing.
 
[TFU] Thegoon84;28580413 said:
Based how well countries like Switzerland are doing, i think we'd do ok.
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Switzerland has a very different economy to us where their main exports are Gold, watches/jewelry and pharmaceuticals. We are a primarily service based economy. The differences means that Switzerland is in a position where their selling commodities (Norway is similar with their oil exports) requires less cooperation and regulation than services do.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Switzerland has a very different economy to us where their main exports are Gold, watches/jewelry and pharmaceuticals. We are a primarily service based economy. The differences means that Switzerland is in a position where their selling commodities (Norway is similar with their oil exports) requires less cooperation and regulation than services do.
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Fair enough. I haven't really done a huge amount of research into pro yes or no! If and when the choice comes i shall look :D
 
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