The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

[Roady]

There already! One of the pains of riding regularly, even though that's short commutes, is feeling so bloated/lazy when totally rested. My 'normal' state these days is fatigued!

I can't imagine how you're able to keep your fitness with all the travel you do. I felt really slow after my ~8 days off of all inclusive, but then again a couple of days afterwards the freshness felt amazing and I had power in spades! Maybe I should rest more!

 

[Berger]

My Neo seems to be a little noisey and the gear tune is never quite perfect.

I’m going to remove the freehub and grease it up tomorrow and refit the hub. Hoping that solves it, cassette is stuck on the hub too..

Update: diagnosis bearings in the freehub are knackered. Totally. Can’t tell the ones internal to the turbo as can’t disassemble it that far.

Not quite sure how this happens on an item that never goes outside and in reality hasn’t done many hours work at all. Say on average 3 hrs a week for a year, only 150 hours is nothing for a bearing.

I’ll email Tacx, this is an Edco freehub which they now say online is total garbage.

 

[Roady]

Say on average 3 hrs a week for a year, only 150 hours is nothing for a bearing.

I’ll email Tacx, this is an Edco freehub which they now say online is total garbage.

That's a bit of a surprise, really poor bearing life unless it's had some outside contaminant, drink/liquid/sweat on it?

You'd think a bearing on a Neo would be a great quality due to the cost but then again...

Also, how do you index it? My Flux is a beast with it's flywheel and I really struggle to index it, obviously turning it by hand is damn hard the further up the cassette you go! I know the Neo doesn't have a heavy flywheel, but still asking in case I've missed a trick...

Really should I need to ride to the top of AdZ to freewheel down indexing it?!

 

[Berger]

It would be impossible to get water inside the bearing in normal use. They are rubber sealed also.

I assume Tacx bought them complete with bearings from Edco.

My main concern would be how to check the bearings on the main axle of the machine if they are worn you cannot tell.

Tacx replied saying please send us a video to diagnose and here is the link to the new freehub.

I have sent them a video back but it’s a deeper rumble that isn’t picked up by a phone very well. The greasing did quieten down the other noises but it’s not a proper fix.

Ideally I’d like a freehub FOC or at a reduced amount, given they have accepted they are poor quality and now ship with their own hub and it’s a top end trainer. 50 euros for a freehub feels like it’s taking the pee a bit when a Novatec etc is half that price.

The Edco Nightmare

While the goal of shipping the Edco hub was to improve compatibility between Shimano and Campagnolo owners, the result was a freehub that underperformed, and frequently caused problems for Neo owners.

If you are just getting started with Neo, and have an Edco freehub, I strongly urge you to consider switching to the Tacx Shimano (part number S0012) or Tacx Campagnolo (part number T2805.51) dedicated hubs that shipped with Neo in 2018. It is a better quality hub with far fewer issues, and you will be saving yourself a headache.

Click here for Shimano freehub body.

Click here for Campagnolo or SRAM SD freehub body

That is from the unofficial Tacx FAQ page.

Indexing I ride the bike, get off and alter it. Or you can pedal by hand and use some gears as when it is plugged in it has freewheel drive. I prefer to have it setup for road use and put up with almost perfect shifting on the turbo though than have to alter each time.

 

[Berger]

Well I had a reply this morning early on: TACX are going to mail me a new freehub FOC which is great!

It’s annoying that I have had two faults with two separate trainers but the first time CRC changed it out fairly quickly for me and this time TACX have sorted it very quickly too.

I don’t know if I would buy another though... I would possibly lean towards KICKR2 but then I am sure they aren’t without issues.

 

[Roady]

given they have accepted they are poor quality and now ship with their own hub and it’s a top end trainer. 50 euros for a freehub feels like it’s taking the pee a bit when a Novatec etc is half that price.

Yup totally agree and I think that's why they're sending you one.

Freehubs are an extortionate price for some brands. €50 isn't bad and about normal! I have an old DT hub with a 10spd freehub, buying an 11spd was about the same so I never bothered and it's still sitting on my workbench...

Well I had a reply this morning early on: TACX are going to mail me a new freehub FOC which is great!

It’s annoying that I have had two faults with two separate trainers but the first time CRC changed it out fairly quickly for me and this time TACX have sorted it very quickly too.

I don’t know if I would buy another though... I would possibly lean towards KICKR2 but then I am sure they aren’t without issues.

Great result, perfect support really once you pressed the issue, but they really should feature/offer a recall on them! But like as you say - some way to check the other internal bearings would be ideal. When's your warranty run out and how easy does it look to disassemble the Neo? My Flux is very easy to take the casing off one side to get at the internals (checked the belt & pulley on it). You can probably find much info about disassembling/repairing. I know I easily found a step by step guide for my Flux and that was over a year ago.

I think Wahoo's issues with the latest KICKR where all solved with firmware/software. Although goes to show even a company like that with an existing stable product which has been out many years it can all go horribly wrong for...!

 

[Berger]

My warranty has run out. You need a tool from Tacx to remove the side with the magnets on which they can supply for 17 euros.

It was my first one which just stopped transmitting ANT/BT which is a worry that it will just die out of the blue.

 

[Berger]

Well I got my freehub. Super fast delivery from the NL. After initial hesitation the Tacx support was great!

 

[Roady]

My warranty has run out. You need a tool from Tacx to remove the side with the magnets on which they can supply for 17 euros.

It was my first one which just stopped transmitting ANT/BT which is a worry that it will just die out of the blue.

Ah, still good to hear. Strange it takes/requires a special tool. I hadn't heard of that and my flux just has usual phillips headed bolts.

It's the 'sudden electronic death' which is the scary prospect. You hear of people with decades old dumb trainers, but I don't think we'll have people still using these electronic smart trainers decades old...

Well I got my freehub. Super fast delivery from the NL. After initial hesitation the Tacx support was great!

Great to hear it was (eventually) so speedy to get the part!

 

[DaleTheWhale]

Is anyone using a Tacx Flux 2? I've had mine setup for a couple weeks now but I can't for the life of me get the cassette to sit as flush as it should (R8000), there's a very very slight wobble in a couple of the cogs. Going to take the casette off my bike and put it on the Tacx to rule that out but the cassettes and chain are all brand new and it's annoying me.

However without the wobble when on the Tacx it couldn't get down to the smallest cog either, do you have to index the gears everytime you switch? Or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

Edit: Found a culprit! The 2nd to last cog of the cassette (one of the ones that have the lip) wasn't aligned properly, the small slot wasn't lined up and now the cassette has no wobble, a quick flick through the gears shows it's a bit better! Think it might need a little tuning still?

 

[xdcx]

Is anyone using a Tacx Flux 2? I've had mine setup for a couple weeks now but I can't for the life of me get the cassette to sit as flush as it should (R8000), there's a very very slight wobble in a couple of the cogs. Going to take the casette off my bike and put it on the Tacx to rule that out but the cassettes and chain are all brand new and it's annoying me.

However without the wobble when on the Tacx it couldn't get down to the smallest cog either, do you have to index the gears everytime you switch? Or am I doing something fundamentally wrong?

Edit: Found a culprit! The 2nd to last cog of the cassette (one of the ones that have the lip) wasn't aligned properly, the small slot wasn't lined up and now the cassette has no wobble, a quick flick through the gears shows it's a bit better! Think it might need a little tuning still?

You should not need to index gears every time you switch.
What are the cassette differences between the trainer and your wheel?
I get a slight difference between wheels and my Kickr. All 11-28 105 cassettes and the stock SRAM 11-28 that comes on the Kickr... it's a tiny difference and sorted with a quick twist of barrel adjuster to increase cable tension to rear mech if anything. Should not need to be anything more than that I would say if the cassettes are much the same etc.

 

[DaleTheWhale]

You should not need to index gears every time you switch.
What are the cassette differences between the trainer and your wheel?
I get a slight difference between wheels and my Kickr. All 11-28 105 cassettes and the stock SRAM 11-28 that comes on the Kickr... it's a tiny difference and sorted with a quick twist of barrel adjuster to increase cable tension to rear mech if anything. Should not need to be anything more than that I would say if the cassettes are much the same etc.

Cassettes are both Ultegra R8000 so no differences (at the time of purchase I couldn't get my hands on a R7000 for the trainer!), I'll give it some time this evening and adjust the rear mech slightly now that the cassette is sitting flush.

 

[Roady]

Good session on Zwift last night. Starting a bit late and not a huge amount of time so opted for a training/interval session 'The Wringer'.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2501989762

Great volume but had to knock it down to 90% of FTP. So may have my FTP set wrong (250W)... Meaning I've lost yet more power/fitness, boo!

But a good ride to get some of it back after many weeks away from Zwift and months since I did intervals like this. Intervals hurt, especially after the first at 500W which nearly blew me up before I reduced the FTP thingy! Seated high cadence efforts for most of the others at 460W I found ok providing I got my cadence up when hitting it. One I stood sprinted and another I hit at low cadence (distracted) really hurt!

Did a final sprint effort during cooldown got a nice 2019 segment PR I wasn't expecting! Got some of my kick back from somewhere!

 

[UTmaniac]

Good session on Zwift last night. Starting a bit late and not a huge amount of time so opted for a training/interval session 'The Wringer'.

https://www.strava.com/activities/2501989762

Great volume but had to knock it down to 90% of FTP. So may have my FTP set wrong (250W)... Meaning I've lost yet more power/fitness, boo!

But a good ride to get some of it back after many weeks away from Zwift and months since I did intervals like this. Intervals hurt, especially after the first at 500W which nearly blew me up before I reduced the FTP thingy! Seated high cadence efforts for most of the others at 460W I found ok providing I got my cadence up when hitting it. One I stood sprinted and another I hit at low cadence (distracted) really hurt!

Did a final sprint effort during cooldown got a nice 2019 segment PR I wasn't expecting! Got some of my kick back from somewhere!

I'm not surprised you found that 500W interval a killer, like me I don't think you do much interval training at 400W+, I've only managed 500W+ for ~1min a few times in the last year.

Plus IIRC, your 250W FTP estimate was from a Zwift Ramp Test (which I've found to date gives me a higher FTP estimate than I have a hope of actually sustaining for 20mins). Not only that, but IIRC, you cheated on your ramp test and got out of the saddle!

Then there is your recent lurgy and consequent and understandable less rides indoors and out over the last month or so, which is bound to reduce your FTP to some degree.

A super quick look through your 20min+ rides from the last six weeks suggests https://www.strava.com/activities/2415364360/analysis/185/1387 (~231W) is your best 20mins, so until you do a ride that demonstrates otherwise, I'd be using ~220W as your FTP estimate. Or simply use your https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ account.

Sessions similar to the above helped me improve during last winter on RGT, manually doing intervals, gradually increasing their duration from 1min to 2mins while gradually increasing to holding 400W.

But don't forget Emily's Mix on Zwift, it's a great short workout when using your FTP, I faked my FTP back to just above March pre-lurgy days (300W) and did https://www.strava.com/activities/2452780239/overview on 15th June to get what is my current FTP estimate.

 

[Roady]

EDIT: Wahoo bought Sufferfest. Discuss. I quite like the concept of Sufferfest still continuing as they are, but with some serious backing now for any of their 'big' things. Lowers their risk. Equally I don't want them to be a direct Zwift competitor. Like them as an alternative which is quite different.

Did 3R 100km yesterday to get some training back on track and volume in my legs. Was tough and sweated a bunch but it was good! Need a few days recovery now though lol

Steve, so much info and things I wanted to go into depth with here mate. But first, great insight and analysis! I really didn't know where to start, a complete reply was very daunting so it's taken a quiet afternoon at work to do one haha!

I'm not surprised you found that 500W interval a killer, like me I don't think you do much interval training at 400W+, I've only managed 500W+ for ~1min a few times in the last year.

I don't do any real structured training so the only 'sitting at 400W+' I'll generally do will be efforts on climbs so steep I cannot go any easier, thankfully few and far between, although there where many bits of Gospel which needed that kinda power with the 39t inner... But just cannot sustain that for very long!

Plus IIRC, your 250W FTP estimate was from a Zwift Ramp Test (which I've found to date gives me a higher FTP estimate than I have a hope of actually sustaining for 20mins). Not only that, but IIRC, you cheated on your ramp test and got out of the saddle!

Maybe... I should do another...!

Then there is your recent lurgy and consequent and understandable less rides indoors and out over the last month or so, which is bound to reduce your FTP to some degree.

The lack of/lowering in volume seems to have impacted my stamina, but the actual freshness from it I think has helped my peak power. Fatigued legs again now after 100km on sunday, so will see how things feel after a couple of days. But would be nice to keep this feeling of strength. It's still there even with fatigue, but also some knee pain at the moment (due to saddle tweaks/changes) which I hope clears up and doesn't get any worse...

A super quick look through your 20min+ rides from the last six weeks suggests https://www.strava.com/activities/2415364360/analysis/185/1387 (~231W) is your best 20mins, so until you do a ride that demonstrates otherwise, I'd be using ~220W as your FTP estimate. Or simply use your https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ account.

Good spot and quite imressed to see that as really wasn't pushing for the 20 mins for it. Need to repeat some 20 minute efforts to drive my stamina forwards. So many a few races/TT/long climbs type stuff, a rest and then an FTP test would be best.

My crickles has been screwed for a while. I go there and it asks me to login, provide details and just does nothing/says invalid password. It's never worked for me!

 

[Skillmister]

Set up my Tacx Vortex, connected straight to Zwift and went for a pedal around. Tried to connect again just now and for the life of me couldn't get the trainer to show up in Zwift Tickr connected fine both times and I could connect the trainer to both the Tacx utility and trainer apps fine but not Zwift. Calibrated through the utility app but can't update the firmware it just gets stuck in a reboot loop but given it connected to Zwift first time on out of the box it can't need it.

Anyone got any ideas?

 

[AndyCr15]

What's stuck rebooting? Hmm, I don't know if I updated firmware on my Tacx Bushido.

 

[Skillmister]

What's stuck rebooting? Hmm, I don't know if I updated firmware on my Tacx Bushido.

The trainer was rebooting according to the utility app.

All worked fine this morning anyway so having everything turned off/disconnected seems to have done the trick.

Did the short 45min FTP test as I didn't have enough free miles left to do the full one. Still the hardest session I've ever done on a bike

FTP 244w with the last 6 mins at 270+

Looking forward to more

 

[AndyCr15]

Did the short 45min FTP test as I didn't have enough free miles left to do the full one. Still the hardest session I've ever done on a bike

Did you do this through the Tacx app or in Zwift? How does it work? I kinda want to do one as I've never done one before, but tbh I'm kinda scared of it! Not helped by your comments! ha ha. How do they work and how are they different to what Zwift tells you from a race. (I think mine is around 209W from races)

 

[Skillmister]

Did you do this through the Tacx app or in Zwift? How does it work? I kinda want to do one as I've never done one before, but tbh I'm kinda scared of it! Not helped by your comments! ha ha. How do they work and how are they different to what Zwift tells you from a race. (I think mine is around 209W from races)

Zwift under ride type on the home page. Had a 5 min warm up, few 20 sec intervals then another few minutes spinning out, 3 min and 2 min intervals, anther few mins then 20 min test at whatever power you can try sustain for 20 mins. I took it easy as I had no idea so started off around 200 quickly ramped up to 230ish then at halfway realised I could do more so slowly upped it. Legs were screaming by the end as I pushed 350+for the last minute. Sweating profusely although I was wearing my new tri suit which was quite warm and didn't have the fan on full blast.

Couldn't tell you what difference is compared to races as I'm totally new to indoor training/zwift