What trainers do you guys use? I had to sell my Planet X road bike a while ago and been massively missing having a road bike (especially carbon) with just my Brompton, so looking at getting a trainer for Zwift as well as a new bike. Ideally i'd like either a trainer where i just take the rear wheel off, so when I want to get back on the road I'm not on a trainer tyre. Otherwise I get two identical rear wheels to easily swap out. Any recommendations? Was looking at the Elite Turbo Muin which looks interesting.
The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
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Soldato
I recently got a Tacx Bushido, which was only £270 on Wiggle, which seemed a good price. I did a power test yesterday, but when I tried the 45 minute one, I think it might be cause i was on ERG (or whatever it's called) when it cranked the resistance up, it felt like something was slipping. I switched to the other mode, but got to be honest, holding over 300W for 5 mins or whatever it wanted, I didn't like the idea of! I did a Ramp test instead and scored 237w. I could probably do better, I'd cycled in the morning already and generally not that fresh but it's nice to have a score (even a low one!) to go next to your cycling ability.
Soldato
I found that weird too. The warmup and intervals were all at low resistance so doing almost 200w felt really easy with high cadence but as soon as the 20 min test started the resistance turned up so much it was almost like 230w was the lowest I could do while keeping my legs turning at a reasonable speed
Set up my Tacx Vortex, connected straight to Zwift and went for a pedal around. Tried to connect again just now and for the life of me couldn't get the trainer to show up in Zwift
Anyone got any ideas?
I have a Vortex and first couple of times I connected to Zwift I had issues too, turned out the trainer was still connected via bluetooth to my phone when using the Tacx app. So make sure to kill the app on your phone if you have calibrated the trainer and then you won't have any issues.
With my Vortex I used the Tacx trainer tyre and I always had tyre slippage when doing high wattage. I have since moved to using cheap tyres from Decathlon and no longer get tyre slippage but have also learnt to better calibrate the unit over time so that may have helped too.
Ramp tests are what I prefer, definitely best to do on fresher legs but you quickly go from being okay I find to struggling to keep the power. I having slowly been improving my FTP, great way to see your gains over time.
Soldato
I've zero issues with my TacX Neo v1 but it has gone up quite significantly since being revised to v2. There is one quirk even with that in very low gears with high effort also causes an intial slippage like feeling but usually a gear higher and it goes away instantly.
So maybe TacX Flux S or Wahoo Kickr Core are worth a look for more affordable direct drive units. Neo is OTT for me but I could afford one at the time when they were cheaper.
The vortex I originally had would have served just as well to be honest though much noisier and required occasional calibration.
So maybe TacX Flux S or Wahoo Kickr Core are worth a look for more affordable direct drive units. Neo is OTT for me but I could afford one at the time when they were cheaper.
The vortex I originally had would have served just as well to be honest though much noisier and required occasional calibration.
Yup, do it through Zwift. FTP tests are something... Erm. Hard to explain. Most of us dread them as we utterly know how to ride them and how much is involved to utterly empty yourself over 20 minutes. If you're doing it right, it hurts! As you're new to them and slightly fatigued then I say just go for it!
FTP tests, or more accurately a 20 minute all out effort, are different to a race effort. A Zwift race should be much more conserved, with you saving energy for large surges, climbs and the finish. An FTP test is more similar to a TT type effort - totally solo with focus on sustaining the maximum power you can for 20 minutes.
You're new to riding the turbo, so you still won't be at your optimum in efficiency (pedal stroke/position/effort), so your FTP result will not be 100% accurate. But it's a starting point, the sooner you get one, the better really as you can then do training sessions based off it and them actually having the desired effects. Much the same way as I personally make sure I'm not super rested for an FTP test, as my usual/standard state is fatigued. If I FTP test'd more rested than 'normal' then my increased FTP result would make all FTP based training I do too hard and I'd then be overly fatigued or failing them...
When I begin turbo riding in the autumn/winters previous years I've always tried to do an FTP test early, but would quite regularly fail them as the effort was so hard and I wasn't used to pushing myself for that intensity for so long. Now I'm turbo riding much more through the year, I'm testing less but am putting similar sustained efforts into riding to have a rough ballpark idea, which is usually accurate enough - as I don't do a huge amount of FTP based training. I usually then tweak the intervals if I'm finding them too hard to avoid blowing myself up and having to fail the session...
Current is a Tacx Flux v1. Fairly ok trainer, the Flux S or v2 is a better unit. The Directo is/was a better unit than the Flux v1 (more accurate power), but not heard much more about them recently. If I was to buy the same trainer/spend as much again I'd probably go for the KICKR Core, but there's nothing wrong with any of those. I would always recommend a direct drive if you're doing any serious training/volume. Inaccuracy of wheel-off, additional wheels/tyres required and things like wheel slip are really valid reasons to avoid using one. Especially when a direct drive can be had second hand for similar money to a good wheel off.
An ok price, but they're quite an old unit. Unlikely to be many firmware updates.
You'll want ERG mode for everything. If you're Zwifting there's no point not having it controlled by the client.
I've no idea how much the power ramp/ERG mode is effected by running it away from power if you are. Probably worth checking. Wheel slip is one of those things - you'll always get it with big intervals as much of the time the power curve is too strong for the tyre:wheel interface. If you don't get it, then you've probably got your unit too tight anyway... Final thing would be to keep consistent tyre pressure. I always used 100 PSI on the Tacx trainer tyre and generally checked it once a week or more.
On wheel trainers are better with sustained power, than steep intervals. The power curve on any/all of them is not strong or steep enough to do real sprint intervals. Even surges can overwhelm them due to the power 'delay' (lack of steepness in the curve or speed in resistance response). I actually used this to my advantage Zwift racing as I could surge huge power efforts from it, which even direct drive opponents couldn't match, buy 'overpowering' the unit until it caught up. And I'm not particularly powerful. It became quite a large part of my racing tactic, so when I switched to direct drive, it was like hitting a wall. I just couldn't surge or overpower it. I lost my 'edge' when it came to racing, along with a reduction to my FTP (~290W down to ~240W). When I'd got used to the direct drive my FTP was probably more accurate around ~265W.
The intervals at the start of a 20 minute test are to sap your energy and take your edge off, they're there to get the blood flowing, while also adding some stress so you don't blow yourself up as soon as you start. With ERG mode enabled, it should be 'tweaking' the power level to what it thinks you can sustain, also probable current FTP setting you have, so worth checking what that is. Keeping the cadence up, it should adjust, but if it doesn't you might have hit a resistance 'floor' for that gear, so change down a couple of cogs and it should stabilise power again at the cadence you're riding at.
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Soldato
More great info, thanks.
I was very limited though as I will mainly be using this in my garage, up away from the flat, that has no power.
I am very tempted to just get a Wattbike Atom and a generator...
I was very limited though as I will mainly be using this in my garage, up away from the flat, that has no power.
I am very tempted to just get a Wattbike Atom and a generator...
Thanks Roady. Yeah looking for direct drive, partly for the ease of just slipping wheel back on and onto the road (and said better accuracy/feel on trainer). Been looking at the Kickr Core/Direto (£549 on Evans atm).
For the cassette, would it just be a matter of buying a duplicate of the one on the bike?
Bike decisions is next. Was full carbon last time, but not sure if necessary this time around, and bike prices have gone up
For the cassette, would it just be a matter of buying a duplicate of the one on the bike?
Bike decisions is next. Was full carbon last time, but not sure if necessary this time around, and bike prices have gone up
Yeah I understand for your particular setup your choice where quite limited.I was very limited though as I will mainly be using this in my garage, up away from the flat, that has no power.
I am very tempted to just get a Wattbike Atom and a generator...
EDIT: Elite Suito could be a shout, although not full ERG without power supplied, it works without. Benefit - it combines power/cadence into a single bluetooth stream so you could (more) easily use it alongside a BT HR monitor to an ipad (2 BT stream limit).
Nothing special about the Atom. For the money you'd be better paying for a power line to be put in and buying a Neo...
Cassette question - yes. Just match what you have to retain compatibility. In theory keep them both 'worn' the same amount will reduce the amount of chain wear when swapping between the two. So should/would avoid much indexing issues.Thanks Roady. Yeah looking for direct drive, partly for the ease of just slipping wheel back on and onto the road (and said better accuracy/feel on trainer). Been looking at the Kickr Core/Direto (£549 on Evans atm).
For the cassette, would it just be a matter of buying a duplicate of the one on the bike?
Bike decisions is next. Was full carbon last time, but not sure if necessary this time around, and bike prices have gone up
Obviously with the bike you really don't need aero/light and much could be said for using a non-carbon frame long term on the turbo... So buy, by groupset/bars/saddle spec. Wheels/frame are very little consideration. Thinking about it groupset isn't even that much of a consideration when running a smart turbo in ERG. Something aluminium PlanetX/open mould frame etc will serve you well. Even second hand you could find some bargains on older bikes people have upgraded groupsets on - buying without wheels etc. Or even do the upgrades yourself - buy a S/H frame, transfer groupset from your current and move your 'old' to the turbo, good excuse for an upgrade!
I'm using a 2015 aluminium Giant Defy 1 which was a crash/RTC replacement. It came with a mix of groupset and components I generally upgraded to full Shimano as I was riding it outside. Commuted with it for several years so it's 'paid for itself' and now just sits on the turbo. Was £900 new and probably worth around £300-400 now? Fancy wheels on the shelf, old junk front wheel fitted (needs bearings, doesn't matter on turbo), upgraded 105 brake calipers even removed and fitted one to the other halfs bike when I needed one (upgrade for her). RD & FD where both upgraded to Ultegra 6800 when I changed crankset to Shimano 5800. Lots of deals on them when Shimano announced R7000 & R8000. Still are if you hunt!
Don't forget much of Shimano groupsets are cross compatible... So if you have old Ultegra 10 speed shifters you could use with modern 'new' Tiagra chain/derailleurs/cassette as that's also 10 speed. Or vice-versa. You can still find places with stocks of new/unused Ultegra 10 speed, like cassettes etc too. Shifters will always generally be the most expensive 'bit' to buy and upgrade, so you could even consider buying a S/H cheap frame by what Shifters it has as the main requirement...
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Cheers Roady. Looking at a bike tomorrow local (and the brand from local shop too). It’s a cross but would be good for me as a general bike. It’s a Pearson I’ve Started So I’ll Finish frame with SRAM. Otherwise as said I’ll probably just buy something purely for the turbo and look for something else more long term outside of turbo use.
Some of the best S/H deals I’ve seen so far have mostly been 56 frames, and ideally needing 54
Some of the best S/H deals I’ve seen so far have mostly been 56 frames, and ideally needing 54
Ha, will do. I might keep an eye out even if the frame is a little smaller. Would rather that than a larger frame - I think..!Yup! If you happen to spot a 2018+ Specialized Venge or Tarmac Disc in a 54cm let me know lol
Solid rain all weekend none stop. Confined to the trainer, couldn’t get my HR up, not sure why, couple of times up the volcano. Didn’t set my world on fire but felt alright.
Funny how I can always get more watts out on the road, must engage my body more and use more/different muscles.
Funny how I can always get more watts out on the road, must engage my body more and use more/different muscles.
Crap weather here too so looked for a decently long ride.
Was gonna do the Herds endurance one ( 2 hours) until I spotted an imperial century @ 1.7-1.9w/kg. Man that was a long boring ride doing the waistband route @ 5 hours. As it turned out I think the pace was about spot on for me, was getting tired and achy towards the end.
Still, got it done and badge earned but won’t do another in a hurry.
Was gonna do the Herds endurance one ( 2 hours) until I spotted an imperial century @ 1.7-1.9w/kg. Man that was a long boring ride doing the waistband route @ 5 hours. As it turned out I think the pace was about spot on for me, was getting tired and achy towards the end.
Still, got it done and badge earned but won’t do another in a hurry.
https://www.strava.com/activities/2569300180
Heavy legs all last week, could've been from the higher miles week the week before, but I think more weather and lack of sleep related. Without any additional weekly rides outside of commuting I was sceptical of doing the usual 100km sunday morning Zwift session. I'm glad I did! Last minute tweak of saddle instead of warming up solved my knee issue. I dropped saddle by 3-4 mm as thought I was over-extending slightly (had increased by 8mm before). Left nose/angle as it was, but moved forward a few mm using KOPS (my usual cause of knee pain is this, not saddle height). Half way through the ride I felt a twinge so sat a little further forwards for a few miles and it seemed to clear. Great ride and once into the flow I was feeling strong. Did several keeping/chasing back on efforts, then several long/strong tows in the last 10 miles to try and drag the group along and the finish time down. Emptied myself but still felt great and able to cruise and recover at 2.5kg after 3.5-4wkg pulls again and again. Just call me Stannard. Proper domestique duties haha!
2 hours 36mins, so 6 mins over the planned, but bang on 2.5w/kg average. Had a load of fun and legs totally fine for all the usual family weekend stuff afterwards - dog walks, kicking footballs and trimming hedges lol
Heavy legs all last week, could've been from the higher miles week the week before, but I think more weather and lack of sleep related. Without any additional weekly rides outside of commuting I was sceptical of doing the usual 100km sunday morning Zwift session. I'm glad I did! Last minute tweak of saddle instead of warming up solved my knee issue. I dropped saddle by 3-4 mm as thought I was over-extending slightly (had increased by 8mm before). Left nose/angle as it was, but moved forward a few mm using KOPS (my usual cause of knee pain is this, not saddle height). Half way through the ride I felt a twinge so sat a little further forwards for a few miles and it seemed to clear. Great ride and once into the flow I was feeling strong. Did several keeping/chasing back on efforts, then several long/strong tows in the last 10 miles to try and drag the group along and the finish time down. Emptied myself but still felt great and able to cruise and recover at 2.5kg after 3.5-4wkg pulls again and again. Just call me Stannard. Proper domestique duties haha!
2 hours 36mins, so 6 mins over the planned, but bang on 2.5w/kg average. Had a load of fun and legs totally fine for all the usual family weekend stuff afterwards - dog walks, kicking footballs and trimming hedges lol
I remember from my previous bike fits that I was always 'borderline' of a 54 as I'm only around 6'7-8". With me knowing I've got shorter legs than the majority of trouser sizes I fit into (32" waist, 30-31" leg is prefect but generally buy 32/32) I've always thought I could ride a 52cm frame. But never tried one!
Weather here was alright, not as bad as forecast the rain has generally been showers and overnight/early morning with only a bit of moisture in the air. Maybe almost a shower at times. I found power easier on Zwift, or sustaining it anyway. On the road I tend to sprint harder and have more peak though.
Damn that would be boring on that route! 100km for 2.5 hours is long enough on it lol. Generally get 100 riders and 50-60 finishers with the 3R sunday morning ride (7.30am), but a solid group of regulars, keepers and always loads of chatter/banter. Worth checking out if you're looking for it. There's 2 rides, one at 2.5w/kg avg, one at 3w/kg. Think there might be a midweek also but I've never done it/unsure if it continues through the summer.
Soldato
Odd one this. As the weather can be inconsistent I was looking to do a bit of a turbo session when its howling a gale / raining in the summer! (not been out since April) so fired on my tv to get youtube on and check out the CTXC videos on. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPvjahSsyFcu8HG1tvqMZSA As the video started up after a couple of seconds its reset back to my main 'smart tv' options screen. The TV is a Panasonic ST42 but curiously enough if i watch another youtube channel it doesn't reset itself. I've tried it on my other smaller telly in the bedroom and it works fine. Anyone else had an issue like this before? Previously (about a year or two ago) i had no trouble watching them on my main tv and the software is fully up to date.
Never seen/heard/experienced it but always used Samsung Smart TV's. Is your indoor a Panasonic with similar software? Check all updates and reinstall app etc.
Our current 4K is what I would describe as 'buggy'. It'll randomly 'lose' it's wifi signal when starting up and you have to power cycle it to get it online. It'll run the Eurosport app but more recently within 15-20 mins it'll freeze needing a soft power off & back on. Similar behaviour with the native NowTV app and YouTube app, it'll struggle for signal and be really slow at times. Power cycling soft/hard reset makes it behave again probably 80% the time. I've taken to streaming from my phone to a Chromecast for Eurosport and we've plugged in a standalone NowTV box and they work flawlessly not losing signal/requiring power cycles.
Doesn't help our home plus.net fibre has been scetchy since around the time we also got the TV. Doesn't matter if TV is on or not so think totally unrelated.
Our current 4K is what I would describe as 'buggy'. It'll randomly 'lose' it's wifi signal when starting up and you have to power cycle it to get it online. It'll run the Eurosport app but more recently within 15-20 mins it'll freeze needing a soft power off & back on. Similar behaviour with the native NowTV app and YouTube app, it'll struggle for signal and be really slow at times. Power cycling soft/hard reset makes it behave again probably 80% the time. I've taken to streaming from my phone to a Chromecast for Eurosport and we've plugged in a standalone NowTV box and they work flawlessly not losing signal/requiring power cycles.
Doesn't help our home plus.net fibre has been scetchy since around the time we also got the TV. Doesn't matter if TV is on or not so think totally unrelated.
Soldato
How well do the mid to high-end wheel-off trainers cope with short power spikes in ERG mode?
I ask as I Suffer(fest)ed through "Half is Easy" tonight and that's two block of Ugly 15s - 15 seconds on (9/10 or 10/10 RPI) , 15 seconds off. Lots of target power changes to cope with...
I ask as I Suffer(fest)ed through "Half is Easy" tonight and that's two block of Ugly 15s - 15 seconds on (9/10 or 10/10 RPI) , 15 seconds off. Lots of target power changes to cope with...
RPI is tricky to judge as it's really no power figure to compare against a power output/resistance rate of a trainer, only your judgement of the effect of the resistance. A kick of 2-3s is going to have a far lower RPI than a surge of 15s. Both require a steep power curve, the shorter obviously needing more of a ramp to feel it within the short timeframe.
I'd say my Flux is around the same as Jobe's Neo, although I'd say maybe 3-4s for 400-500W and 8-10s for say 800W.
Regardless of the advertised response rate, for me it's a steep enough power curve for 200w-500w in 3s. Maybe marginally more, as I think any faster and it would feel like hitting a wall.
200-800w in 20s - poor example of the latter but I don't tend to do really short intervals like that so relying on race/ride data. That's somewhere around my peak anyway, I don't have a huge kick.
I'd say my Flux is around the same as Jobe's Neo, although I'd say maybe 3-4s for 400-500W and 8-10s for say 800W.
Regardless of the advertised response rate, for me it's a steep enough power curve for 200w-500w in 3s. Maybe marginally more, as I think any faster and it would feel like hitting a wall.
200-800w in 20s - poor example of the latter but I don't tend to do really short intervals like that so relying on race/ride data. That's somewhere around my peak anyway, I don't have a huge kick.
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