I'd actually be siding with your power metre numbers versus Neo2. They are renowned under readers, I can show you a million bits of data to back that up. They genuinely do under read versus mostly everything else.
The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
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I'd actually be siding with your power metre numbers versus Neo2. They are renowned under readers, I can show you a million bits of data to back that up. They genuinely do under read versus mostly everything else.
I'm not fussed on the overall number! I am aware they underread and having an extra 10w or not doesn't matter to me, it's knowing that when I go out and train on the road or offroad that i'm running from the same base no matter the bike I'm on, the Neo allows me to adjust the powers accordingly across each bike to the same level. I don't have a PM on the turbo bike so will just have to train harder to keep up 
The requirement for a consistent/reliable pair of sources is massive at esports level on this thing. It's why I have bought this Kickr18 to replace my Kickr16... I was verified and got many decent duals on my Kickr16-Vector3 setup but there was very little consistency no matter what I tried.
For example, I could do a 20min warmup. Spin down and calibrate both sources and end up with 4-5% differences.
The next week, I could do no calibration on either and end up with 1-2% differences.
No matter what combination of calibrations, warmups or what temperature was in garage there was no pattern or technique to ensure I got solid/comparable results.
This is 2x datasets from the exact same course in a TTT in Zwift.
October 2020 - https://www.zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=63575
January 2021 - https://www.zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=99255
In both situations I done the exact same thing. 15minute warmup. Spin down the Kickr successfully and calibrate the Vector3 pedals using the Garmin Connect app with a 0 torque reading reported on calibration.
Yet look at the differences. It's ridiculous.
I have so much recorded data and plenty of duals to go back on so can easily see there was an issue on that January 2021 dual. But when you warm everything up and get successful calibrations what the hell can you do?
This is just my way of saying, don't get too hung up on it. It is actually more so a calibration roulette you are playing which determines how close your two sources will match on that given session.....
Some folks have sources that are incredibly close all the time. Others need to have almost protocol in place for warm up and calibration to ensure they're accurate. It's luck of the draw on the two sources you end up buying to a point. 5 people with Kickr v5 and Assioma Duo's will all see different results, no two sources from same brand/line are exact and it honestly is a lottery at times.
For example, I could do a 20min warmup. Spin down and calibrate both sources and end up with 4-5% differences.
The next week, I could do no calibration on either and end up with 1-2% differences.
No matter what combination of calibrations, warmups or what temperature was in garage there was no pattern or technique to ensure I got solid/comparable results.
This is 2x datasets from the exact same course in a TTT in Zwift.
October 2020 - https://www.zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=63575
January 2021 - https://www.zwiftpower.com/analysis.php?set_id=99255
In both situations I done the exact same thing. 15minute warmup. Spin down the Kickr successfully and calibrate the Vector3 pedals using the Garmin Connect app with a 0 torque reading reported on calibration.
Yet look at the differences. It's ridiculous.
I have so much recorded data and plenty of duals to go back on so can easily see there was an issue on that January 2021 dual. But when you warm everything up and get successful calibrations what the hell can you do?
This is just my way of saying, don't get too hung up on it. It is actually more so a calibration roulette you are playing which determines how close your two sources will match on that given session.....
Some folks have sources that are incredibly close all the time. Others need to have almost protocol in place for warm up and calibration to ensure they're accurate. It's luck of the draw on the two sources you end up buying to a point. 5 people with Kickr v5 and Assioma Duo's will all see different results, no two sources from same brand/line are exact and it honestly is a lottery at times.
Its becoming clear to me that I'm not where I wanted to be at this stage of training for The Outlaw in July.
Admittedly the guided busway is a wind tunnel, and there are obstacles on a lot of it, and average speed is brought down by crossing roads but I'd say all that might account for a 10% cost. I was hoping to be around 22mph average right now, but its clear that my turbo riding is going much better than my outdoor riding. Obviously there are no obstacles and silly things like wind on the turbo, but I just feel stronger getting on it than I do when I go out.
Any thoughts? I've been pushing zwift and sufferfest reasonably hard over winter but short of racing on Zwift (which I don't really want to do, but schedule complicates it as well) I'm obviously not training effectively.
Recently started up weights again and I know that my body is feeling more fatigued than usual because of it but I feel like I've hit that mid training plateau. My recent FTP test was someway below what I was expecting for example.
I've lost a lot of weight this year and seen my W/Kg go up nicely as a result (I've always been fit, just lost 7 Kgs this year to get below 70 for the first time in as long as I can remember, sitting nicely at 68Kg right now, but I've never been this weight when cycling (only running), perhaps thats accounting for some of it?
Admittedly the guided busway is a wind tunnel, and there are obstacles on a lot of it, and average speed is brought down by crossing roads but I'd say all that might account for a 10% cost. I was hoping to be around 22mph average right now, but its clear that my turbo riding is going much better than my outdoor riding. Obviously there are no obstacles and silly things like wind on the turbo, but I just feel stronger getting on it than I do when I go out.
Any thoughts? I've been pushing zwift and sufferfest reasonably hard over winter but short of racing on Zwift (which I don't really want to do, but schedule complicates it as well) I'm obviously not training effectively.
Recently started up weights again and I know that my body is feeling more fatigued than usual because of it but I feel like I've hit that mid training plateau. My recent FTP test was someway below what I was expecting for example.
I've lost a lot of weight this year and seen my W/Kg go up nicely as a result (I've always been fit, just lost 7 Kgs this year to get below 70 for the first time in as long as I can remember, sitting nicely at 68Kg right now, but I've never been this weight when cycling (only running), perhaps thats accounting for some of it?
True, as long as I'm in general ball park, end of the day i'm running 5 different power meters on my bikes (2 Quarqs, 1 rotor, 1 stages and 1 set of vectors) it's just knocking those extra few percents off if I have an overreading one. my rotor I used for a few days and it was consistently 6-7% out. Only done the quarq this morning, I'm not fussed on the ultimate number just making sure that if I have a session in my training plan to do 120% efforts that I'm doing 120% efforts not 110% efforts. If I ever get into racing properly on Zwift I may consider moving a PM over to help me out as I get dropped like a mofo every week
Wave when you pass me
I did a ramp test last night and it diabolical as well. It was the start of new base phase so did set my running zones the night before so even though I felt fine I just did not have the grit to carry on.
Soldato
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I did an FTP test today. My god they hurt!
Managed 388W for 20 mins, so exactly the same as my peak last year.
I guess the positive is that I've not lost anything over winter, but definitely something to work on over the summer. Those extra 12W are going to be tough!!
Managed 388W for 20 mins, so exactly the same as my peak last year.
I guess the positive is that I've not lost anything over winter, but definitely something to work on over the summer. Those extra 12W are going to be tough!!
Beast mode alert!!!! Some serious watts there!
Since going to windows 10, touch wood I’ve had no issues. It’s slower to load and the FPS has dropped but no driver issues or crashes. Moving my ANT+ above the computer has reduced any drop outs / connection attempts to almost zero too.
Ive been doing sand and Sequia efforts on Tuesday and the EvoCC short race Thursday which is a ~22 minute volcano effort. My best power number this week of the last three weeks and I managed to hold the group to the end, the pace was a little slower (5:25 laps instead of 5:18) but still good. Even though only riding three days a week starting to feel a little fatigued and not so fresh.
Did the absa Cape epic tonight, was going alright about 15mins in top 50 and power just died, tried to unpair and pair, but nothing. Had to take the battery out the stages and put it back in. Teach me for trying to get some free Watts was enjoying that. Tried to load up another race quickly but didn't have the will to go from the off despite only being a 5 min gap.
was enjoying that. Tried to load up another race quickly but didn't have the will to go from the off despite only being a 5 min gap.Are you Outlawing as well?Wave when you pass me
Nice! I'm doing the team event, ride only, thankfully this year. Whilst I've kept up a reasonable run training (twice a week, comfortably at half marathon distance right now), the complete lack of swim training would kill me.Yes, that is if I can wiggle my arms in a swimming motion
Edit: I was originally doing the full Outlaw last year, but with the virus and difficulties training deferred my entry to a team place this year. In hindsight I wish I hadn't, and was doing the full one now, even if my cycling training is going far more poorly than I'd hoped for. Oh well, next year
. Two years of specific Ironman training for cycling might get me to that sub 5 hr ride...
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Its going to be my first and only full distance, so picked a easy one Never going to smash any records at my age so just enjoying the training and hoping to get under cut off time.
Last year was meant to be Stafford but that got cancelled so hopefully that will be later in the year, It certainly sucks all your life in training even without being able to swim.
Never going to smash any records at my age so just enjoying the training and hoping to get under cut off time. Last year was meant to be Stafford but that got cancelled so hopefully that will be later in the year, It certainly sucks all your life in training even without being able to swim.
Soldato
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That's the only reason I'm sort of hoping IM Frankfurt is cancelled (postponed) as I'm literally dreading the swim!
I've barely seen a swimming pool or lake in over a year and have to manage swimming 2.4 miles!
I've barely seen a swimming pool or lake in over a year and have to manage swimming 2.4 miles!
There's still a massive amount of young riders and 'youngsters' getting into cycling around here, even pre-lockdowns. But I do agree about the amateur bike races seeming to be drying up, there's just too many rules, red tape, CTT/BC gunf that organisers have to wade through. Certainly around here it was only those 'older' riders and clubs which put on events, none of the younger ones seem to want to. But also the responsibility around safety is so much higher, there's at least 2 here who've had to delay/stop due to the lack of helpers/marshalls willing to donate their time. Police/council here have always been pretty good (we have a good local councillor who is a big cycling advocate (Jim Kenyon - still pushing to get an outdoor cycle track/circuit built after many years of obstacles!), which I hope will put Hereford back on the map in the West midlands district scene.I think I mentioned this before, when I was growing up in the 70`s early 80`s every weekend their was some kind of amateur cycle racing going on. Then for whatever reason it all stopped. My gut feeling it was idiot councils demanding more and more red tape and such and the people that ran just decided to call it day and the youngers then had other distractions like the playstation
NFTO actually helped organise and run a Road Race as part of the 'Hitter' series, but unfortunately the club and that didn't continue, whereas it was expected to. There's been nothing 'new' for a long time around here which has stuck, but is also easy for riders to get from here to Maindy, most of the midlands circuits/races and also south to things like the Severn Road Race.
Awesome! Keep it up! If you find yourself wanting to offload the KICKR later in the year let me know...Total noob here. Still getting used to this riding a bike inside lark, but needed something to burn the COVID spread and also get me fit for when I’m allowed to get back out mountain biking with my mates. Got myself a Kickr v5 which I’ve paired with my old hardtail mtb. Had it for 2 weeks now and done just over 200km. Signed up for Zwift also. Finding it totally different from usual type of riding, just keeping the pedals turning for an hour plus at a time is strange!......
Good link and good numbers for a Vortex. I found mine out massively more than that (FTP over 280W, then 250W once I went to direct drive).
Still lots of jokes/banter in 3R about 'riding a Vortex' as a 'solution' for easy power gain (even when calibrated). They're that bad/renowned for it!
I like to buck trends, so I'm actually doing the opposite - noticed an unexpected upward trend with my Zwift results and FTP. Tried everything I could to solve/stop it. Gave up trying to get my trainer accurate. Bought a power meter instead and suffering a power loss from it!
Did a ramp test tuesday as a bit of a 'where am I', knowing I've had a few bad weeks and struggling. 239W. Pretty poor from the 260W I was around the start of the year (when trainer was more likely to be accurate - than the 270W I saw late Jan). But at least it is hopefully a figure I'm at 'rock bottom' with, yet consistent to build back up from.
A 'golden' FTP for me to aim back towards will be around 270W, I raced a few weeks with that on the questionable trainer config and it was great. A figure I've been near before a few times before so not impossible, but for now I'm aiming at 250W just as a 'baseline' to hopefully coincide with more outdoor riding.
Good numbers and consistency again, but I'm also slightly surprised to see the Rotor that far out - they're meant to be pretty good!
Not really sure I need to even add anything to that and pretty much what everyone with any experience and braincells has been saying for a while.
But Zwift e-racing is what it is, there's not much we can do about it! Certainly further 'down the pile' from PL it's pretty lawless. Far too many taking themselves 'seriously' and riding with bad calibrations, even in PL.
The CAT split is horrible once you're down in B too, so much so the recent ZRL has put several off in 3R and it now looks like we'll have more riding the TFC 'Mad-Monday' series as there are a huge amount more CAT 'splits'. I'll be riding in B (not B+), or maybe even C+
. Can also 'dip in and out' rather than riding with a specific 'team' of named riders, with points going towards the club as a whole. It's a bit of a trial I think by TFC so no idea how long it'll go on for...What makes you think you've not been training well? If you're comparing Strava's 'Estimated Avg Power' to the numbers you've had on Zwift/Suff then really don't. It's garbage! Use RPE and HR to compare, or even average speed should be something to aim at alongside them, if you can't get power to ride with outside.Its becoming clear to me that I'm not where I wanted to be at this stage of training for The Outlaw in July.
Admittedly the guided busway is a wind tunnel, and there are obstacles on a lot of it, and average speed is brought down by crossing roads but I'd say all that might account for a 10% cost. I was hoping to be around 22mph average right now, but its clear that my turbo riding is going much better than my outdoor riding. Obviously there are no obstacles and silly things like wind on the turbo, but I just feel stronger getting on it than I do when I go out.
Any thoughts? I've been pushing zwift and sufferfest reasonably hard over winter but short of racing on Zwift (which I don't really want to do, but schedule complicates it as well) I'm obviously not training effectively.
Looking at your avg HR there and your max, at a guess your tempo/low threshold would be around 165/170bpm? So that average of 160bpm being below that means you could've 'safely' been pushing harder for a true 'race pace' (although HR is very subjective and personal, just offering an opinion to balance against above!)
It's a fun one and quite well done, but I'm not 100% sure what it's trying to say... ZSCOT pee'ing (doping control), while a disappointed Zwift looks on, to win those categories...?Couldn't not share this
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I think there might be something I can change on this, just need to speak to Berger about what he did with his. I got it second hand and knew it was out from the offset! Although I thought it was more like 8-9% when I compared it to my Vectors, so i've been putting in some good training whenevber I've used that one
Massive numbers mate and well deserved, you've been flying the last couple of years even with all the other silly non-cycling stuff
Did a ramp test Tuesday and came out at 239W. Send me some watts!
ZRL TTT last night proved the same, literally same average power for 35 mins, riding with a team I've been consistent with before, but this time I had to skip every turn before eventually getting binned at 7km to go. My aim will be to finish with them next week and do at least a couple of turns...!
Annoyingly my ELEMNT didn't record (had no 'start'!) to compare power, but good 17 mins warm up with a zero in there so Stages should've been accurate...
If anyone wants to offer me some advice/tips on how to build back up without a massive amount of extra riding (basically 4-6h per week) then let me know... For now I'm just going to bury myself in races as the weather gets better, then abuse myself outside on some hills to get some sustained power back.
I feel silly saying, as it seems obvious and I assume you're looking for a more detailed answer, but I assume you've tried workouts? I've been doing them based on my 4DP results and they seem to have really helped. Most are 40 minutes to an hour, so 4 or 5 of those a week doesn't seem a big time investment?