The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
- Thread starter randomshenans
- Start date
KICKR. Unless budget was a concern, then the SNAP or similar. The only 'gain' you get from the SNAP (other than lower price) is it being an 'on-wheel' trainer so if you rode outside you could just clip bike into it and ride (although this chews through tires!).
If you've got spare wheels then a turbo tire is recommended, but of course you end up swapping out wheels all the time. The KICKR obviously you just pull your wheel out and clip it in, no tyre wear or need for extra wheels.
(I'm assuming by your '3 times a week min' you're also riding outside).
The KICKR has far more features - faster/quicker ramps, better feel, more compatibility, higher resistance etc etc
If you've got spare wheels then a turbo tire is recommended, but of course you end up swapping out wheels all the time. The KICKR obviously you just pull your wheel out and clip it in, no tyre wear or need for extra wheels.
(I'm assuming by your '3 times a week min' you're also riding outside).
The KICKR has far more features - faster/quicker ramps, better feel, more compatibility, higher resistance etc etc
Man of Honour
I bought a SNAP, changed my mind due to stock issues, went to buy again and after reading a lot of reviews and forum posts this week, I've now decided to get the Kickr
I don't fancy getting through tyres as quickly as it apparently chews them up, nor do I want uneven wear front and back. And I really can't be bothered having a spare wheel and swapping them out each time. So I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the Kickr, the amount I'll use it in the winter and other bad weather spells will mean I easily get my moneys worth
I don't fancy getting through tyres as quickly as it apparently chews them up, nor do I want uneven wear front and back. And I really can't be bothered having a spare wheel and swapping them out each time. So I'm just going to bite the bullet and get the Kickr, the amount I'll use it in the winter and other bad weather spells will mean I easily get my moneys worth
You'll likely get uneven wear front and back anyway due to bicycles being rear wheel drive 
A lot of people seem to use turbo trainers to avoid the wear.
I've seen a deal on an Elite Volano direct drive for £350 (and a Vortex for £285)... considering the options! Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+ goes for £280 too. There's also Kurt Kinetics offerings between £300-350.
A lot of people seem to use turbo trainers to avoid the wear.
I've seen a deal on an Elite Volano direct drive for £350 (and a Vortex for £285)... considering the options! Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+ goes for £280 too. There's also Kurt Kinetics offerings between £300-350.
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If you're taking the rear wheel off for a direct drive trainer and have a set of winter wheels (or a spare rim) then using a wheel-on trainer really isn't a faff at all. You get tyre wear but it's far from that alluded to and if I didn't already have a PM then a wheel on trainer and a PM solution would be my preference over a Direct-Drive trainer and no power out on the open road.
Direct drive trainers have their own woe's such as running the same chain on two different cassettes and associated mis-matched wear/stretch issues there. And also indexing being different between the wheel and trainer. Not much of an issue in ERG mode but may still require a small tweak.
Direct drive trainers have their own woe's such as running the same chain on two different cassettes and associated mis-matched wear/stretch issues there. And also indexing being different between the wheel and trainer. Not much of an issue in ERG mode but may still require a small tweak.
I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole! That's coming as a previous Kurt Kinetic Road Machine & InRide owner. Fantastic dumb trainer but stay away from the InRide and Smart Control. They're both garbage.
Yeah didn't realise until later on I actually needed the Smart Control versions which are considerably more. I think I've narrowed it down to the Tacx Flow, Vortex Smart or the Elite Qubo Digital Smart B+.
Flow I can get for about £180 after work discount and British Cycling discount. Vortex seems the cheapest is £284.99 from Rutland though I'd probably get somewhere else to price match. The Elite Qubo is available from Athleteshop with trainer mat, front block for £250 or £280 elsewhere.
The main limitations of the Elite Qubo seem to be some inaccurate power readings reported on Zwift forums, it's pressure is maintained by rider weight so can be some slip if you get out the saddle, and apparently, it can't be controlled by bluetooth so iPad Zwift won't work. Also, it won't transmit ANT+ at the same time so unlikely to be able to read stats on Garmin as well as Zwift. It does however have a higher max power.
Vortex and Flow obviously a bit limited by the reliability issues they seem to face.
According to what I read around the Vortex noises & previous failures, it was all down to a 'bad batch' of magnets followed by some pretty bad QC (mostly caused by demand as it followed a price drop). Although mine makes some noises I always ride with headphones in so I've been pretty lax about getting the warranty sorted. The noises don't seem to affect the accuracy.
Regarding Kurt Kinetic, this is what DCR mentions:
This is the thread you'll find mentioned various places. Basically the lead software dev of KK arguing with customers about the poor business choices of KK - No FE-C support only BTLE (their own closed version), limited compatibility (no Zwift to start with!), little/no android features (their app had features 'coming soon' for over a year). No future roadmap for missing FE-C/ANT+ or opening their protocol. Add to that the 'free replacement' of faulty v1 InRide pods (which where still inaccurate at best, but at least the replacement worked), followed by the recall and then complete pulling of the Smart Control units (when they were already nearly a year late to market). Seemingly baffling business decisions (self destructive compared to all other trainer manufacturers) from such a big brand of early turbo trainers, such a shame to see as the Rock'n Roll & Road Machine as dumb trainers where pretty much the pinnacle.
Regarding Kurt Kinetic, this is what DCR mentions:
This is the thread you'll find mentioned various places. Basically the lead software dev of KK arguing with customers about the poor business choices of KK - No FE-C support only BTLE (their own closed version), limited compatibility (no Zwift to start with!), little/no android features (their app had features 'coming soon' for over a year). No future roadmap for missing FE-C/ANT+ or opening their protocol. Add to that the 'free replacement' of faulty v1 InRide pods (which where still inaccurate at best, but at least the replacement worked), followed by the recall and then complete pulling of the Smart Control units (when they were already nearly a year late to market). Seemingly baffling business decisions (self destructive compared to all other trainer manufacturers) from such a big brand of early turbo trainers, such a shame to see as the Rock'n Roll & Road Machine as dumb trainers where pretty much the pinnacle.
Haha nice. I'm half tempted to wait and see if there are big price shifts with new trainers being released at the same time I kinda want one of some form asap.
Leaning towards getting Wiggle to price match the Vortex.. I need to buy something to keep my platinum discount apparently
I've seen the Elite Turbo Muin B+ Direct Drive pop up between £350-400 and it doesn't look too bad but apparently also can't do bluetooth to iOS. That does sound like something that could be replicated and broadcast by an intermediary device from the ANT+ signal though I don't seem to be able to find anyone that has done that.
Leaning towards getting Wiggle to price match the Vortex.. I need to buy something to keep my platinum discount apparently
I've seen the Elite Turbo Muin B+ Direct Drive pop up between £350-400 and it doesn't look too bad but apparently also can't do bluetooth to iOS. That does sound like something that could be replicated and broadcast by an intermediary device from the ANT+ signal though I don't seem to be able to find anyone that has done that.
There's obviously devices which plug into your iOS device to give it ANT+, I bet there are Thunderbolt versions too. As for conversion Wahoo do the RFLKT which has a 'ANT+ Bridge'. I think I remember reading somewhere that the TICKR X could also do the same but I'm unable to find it now. The device DCR has used more recently is the 4iiii Viiiiva.
Trainerroad used to do have a bridge module as part of their app but think it got removed.
Trainerroad used to do have a bridge module as part of their app but think it got removed.
I suspect Zwift iOS would only read Bluetooth communications though so would probably need something like the Viiiiva. Interesting that he didn't try with Zwift iOS and the comments only suggest one person with a Kickr got it working. Presumably the Kickr transmits Bluetooth to start with.
All Wahoo products broadcast on dual BTLE & ANT+. Thinking about it most modern devices do the same except Kurt Kinetic, Garmin & Apple, it just so happens Garmin & Apple are huge! From what I read some of the most popular BTLE chipsets used in fitness products are capable of ANT+ with a firmware updates and vice-versa. So very easy for most to implement, especially when you consider most of them are using the same FE-C commands as ANT+ encapsulated within BTLE transmissions and just doing a conversion each end.
Any Flux users? With Halfords BC discount and gift vouchers at 9% off could get it for a touch under £500. Somewhat tempting!
Almost pulled the trigger on the Vortex but a bit worried about it being underpowered if I want to do sprint work etc + I'd also like some accuracy. Other options are of course the Cycleops Magnus (£370ish) and the Kickr Snap.
Almost pulled the trigger on the Vortex but a bit worried about it being underpowered if I want to do sprint work etc + I'd also like some accuracy. Other options are of course the Cycleops Magnus (£370ish) and the Kickr Snap.
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My sprint certainly feels pretty damn weak but I've never measured to test just watched a review where the guy said it could be quite limited in that department.
I've only maxed my Vortex a couple of times, 1000W+ kicks will do it, but sprinting more gradually (not 1 big kick, but several) up to 800/900W it copes fine.
Jumped onto a EVR Zwift race last Wednesday. 291NP. Prompt again to update FTP to 284W but ignored it! ZP is down so not totally sure on my finish place... 12th overall (& not sure how many riding)but it was an open race so all CATs together.
I've been feeling pretty pants most of the week but Race went ok, seem to have lost my climbing legs but found power on the flats. Good start and got up in the front group although as soon as we hit some of the slight drags it turned into a smash fest. Dropped back and settled in with 4-5 others, working well on the flats but a few of the climbs I noticed these guys holding 4.5-5w/kg climbing and dropping me while I was doing the same power, so I knew things were going to hurt...!
I was able to hang on for two of the long climbs, only losing a couple of seconds which I was able to catch up. Before the third time I put a big effort/breakaway effort before it, making up 10-15s but they regathered me before the climb. It was too much and I dropped back, losing 20s to them by the top &resigning myself to a solo ride to the finish. Half a lap later I found myself managing the gap to them at around 10-15s which I was happy with. One of the stronger riders in the group lost connection and I flew past him, as he was around 20s back he'd reconnected and was smashing 4-4.5w/kg to catch back up. I reigned in slightly and rode half a lap very quick with him, even keeping up on the big climb. As we crested the group infront where less than 20s in front so I went for it! Made a huge effort and lost my companion (shame!), passed one of them who'd blown up and I was closing in on the guy in front. I caught him with a 1.5 mile 4.5-5w/kg chase, half a mile sat on his wheel then long 6.5w/kg sprint with 8-9w/kg finish. Literally rolled him on the finish line! I went early to try and distance him, but he passed me and I was only able to beat him with my final kick at the line!
Jumped onto a EVR Zwift race last Wednesday. 291NP. Prompt again to update FTP to 284W but ignored it! ZP is down so not totally sure on my finish place... 12th overall (& not sure how many riding)but it was an open race so all CATs together.
I've been feeling pretty pants most of the week but Race went ok, seem to have lost my climbing legs but found power on the flats. Good start and got up in the front group although as soon as we hit some of the slight drags it turned into a smash fest. Dropped back and settled in with 4-5 others, working well on the flats but a few of the climbs I noticed these guys holding 4.5-5w/kg climbing and dropping me while I was doing the same power, so I knew things were going to hurt...!
I was able to hang on for two of the long climbs, only losing a couple of seconds which I was able to catch up. Before the third time I put a big effort/breakaway effort before it, making up 10-15s but they regathered me before the climb. It was too much and I dropped back, losing 20s to them by the top &resigning myself to a solo ride to the finish. Half a lap later I found myself managing the gap to them at around 10-15s which I was happy with. One of the stronger riders in the group lost connection and I flew past him, as he was around 20s back he'd reconnected and was smashing 4-4.5w/kg to catch back up. I reigned in slightly and rode half a lap very quick with him, even keeping up on the big climb. As we crested the group infront where less than 20s in front so I went for it! Made a huge effort and lost my companion (shame!), passed one of them who'd blown up and I was closing in on the guy in front. I caught him with a 1.5 mile 4.5-5w/kg chase, half a mile sat on his wheel then long 6.5w/kg sprint with 8-9w/kg finish. Literally rolled him on the finish line! I went early to try and distance him, but he passed me and I was only able to beat him with my final kick at the line!
Hi, a couple of quick questions.
I'm planning to use my iPad Pro with the iOS Zwift app through Bluetooth, connected to a Tacx Neo trainer with an HDMI converter to a TV.
- Which HR strap can I use? Does it need to be a Bluetooth enabled one?
- What trainer tables do you use for laptops / tablets?
Thanks
I'm planning to use my iPad Pro with the iOS Zwift app through Bluetooth, connected to a Tacx Neo trainer with an HDMI converter to a TV.
- Which HR strap can I use? Does it need to be a Bluetooth enabled one?
- What trainer tables do you use for laptops / tablets?
Thanks
Soldato
Hi, a couple of quick questions.
I'm planning to use my iPad Pro with the iOS Zwift app through Bluetooth, connected to a Tacx Neo trainer with an HDMI converter to a TV.
- Which HR strap can I use? Does it need to be a Bluetooth enabled one?
- What trainer tables do you use for laptops / tablets?
Thanks
I use an iPad pro through Bluetooth to KickR for zwift and connect it to the TV using the Apple HDMI converter as well.
Yes it has to be a Bluetooth HRM, I use either the Wahoo TickR or an old Polar one I have, no problems with either
I use the arm of a sofa to rest the iPad on
Yes you'll need a BT HRM. I can easily recommend the Wahoo TICKR! I've had mine probably around 5 years now. Needs a new battery roughly every 10 months and has been superb! Mine has been used that much I'm considering buying a new strap as the elastic is starting to 'degrade' on mine. The actual unit has been faultless.
I'm actually using a old portable saw bench I had (£25!) for my laptop to sit on, it's quite low down with the laptop keyboard about as low as the bottom of my drops, right next to them. Ok to type on briefly at that height (most of my 'chatting' I do via the Zwift app on my smartphone attached to my bars using a quadlock). I've then used a desk-monitor arm to hold a screen up in front of me. I've only got a small (20" old TV, not even 1080p!) screen to use (attached to lappy via HDMI) otherwise I'd probably have put a shelf up for a larger screen and move close to a wall in front (as the cheapest solution), rather than using an arm. Tacx do various tablet stands, one attaches to your bars and another which floor stands. They're not bad money when you consider things like the KICKR desk!
Had a good EVR race last night. Tough, but good! 11th in CAT B.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1125655806
https://www.zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=10463
Went out hard but couldn't stick with the front group(s). Assuming them all A, I dropped back to a group forming 20s down. Rolling some strong turns the group continued to swell, some coming up, some dropping back. We must've had 10-15 riders for most of the race with around 75% of us working well together, a couple sat on and a couple of riders constantly attacking. One of them 'Mike D' seemed very strong and riding at a high tempo he would constantly find himself off the front while others attacked/chased before easing up. Coming into the final couple of laps I messaged him asking if he fancied a long attack at the finish, he wasn't sure and I got the impression was happy riding at tempo. Being one of the strongest in our group I'd pretty much decided to try and follow him when he went! Sure enough 5-6 miles before the finish he put in a strong dig (with 1 other), as we started to reel them in I went after them expecting him to come with me... He didn't so I went out solo for a dig and the group closed me down, just as they did he launched again with another 2 guys in tow. I couldn't follow and they where soon 30s up the road! A couple tried to reel them in but didn't make many inroads, I was sitting in then trying to prepare to go long at the last mile.
Around 2.5 to go I found myself on the front with a couple of the other stronger riders, the group starting to string out. I ramped things up slightly testing and immediately things blew up with the strong riders jumping on me and others shelled out the back, I decided it was now or never!
Kept the pace hard as we went through 2 miles and there were only 4-5 of us. We caught and passed a couple of riders dropping back (none of the earlier escapees) and around 1 mile to go I kept the power on to try and get away but was closed down/swamped quickly again (obviously a 'marked man' these days!). I didn't think I had much in me for a big finish so after that was fairly resigned to finishing with them, sitting on wheels recovering. 800ft to go things opened up with all 4 of us sprinting for the line, one dropped early and I somehow rolled the other two on the line timing my kick perfectly! We even almost caught one of the earlier escapees!
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