Soldato
Gimped in almost every way possible, even the whole ‘Elves tekkin muh jobs!!1’. Wait for their doom in the show to be down to their white human supremacy.
The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime)
- Thread starter LiE
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Caporegime
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If you say so mate.
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Caporegime
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Shows like The Rings of Power and She-Hulk have been runaway successes – why can’t keyboard warriors admit it?
Happily, these shows have proven to be huge hits – extremely popular with audiences and critics alike, despite the trolling.
www.newstatesman.com
Soldato
Shows like The Rings of Power and She-Hulk have been runaway successes – why can’t keyboard warriors admit it?
Happily, these shows have proven to be huge hits – extremely popular with audiences and critics alike, despite the trolling.
Brilliant, I especially like the last paragraph
"The final episode of She-Hulk’s first season, in which the eponymous character is attacked by a group of male superhero enthusiasts who hate her for just existing, is a gloriously silly, extremely knowing and laser-targeted dig at exactly those fans who can’t see past their idealised vision of what their favourite shows should be. It has not gone down over-well with the YouTubers and Redditers. Small wonder. Critics possessing such limited and inflexible imagination, with such a weirdly deliberate lack of empathy for the enjoyment of their fellow fans, were never going to be bright enough to get the joke."
100% nailed it.
Still must be about time for another misrepresentative unfunny childish meme
Caporegime
Funnily enough its usually that complete lack of subtlety and on the nose clap back that winds people up for precisely the reasons they claim its so amazing. No one can criticise without being lumped into the very extreme and toxic minority who genuinely have issues for no good reason other than their bigotry. Show writers pat themselves on the back for their scathing commentary on modern issues when they borderline get their characters to look into the camera and explain what the audience should think and feel about something because its so blunt and unintelligent in its telling.
I haven't watched she-hulk at all and I probably won't. After the utter trash that was Lover and Thunder I have very little good faith left for the MCU. Its great that people love these shows but its no less valid to think they are utter crap as well and to articulate why.
I loved Thor Ragnarok but dear lord L&T was appalling. Its the hope that kills you. Its the knowledge that there is no need for it to be so bad. That clearly they are capable of better. That it should be better.
This is the frustrating thing. This is why people are emotive about the topic. They know that Tolkien has been adapted into 3 brilliant films. There are thousands of writers who could do it justice. When you then get a beautifully created mess because they didn't prioritise the most important things its a real shame.
Caporegime
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This was the bit that struck me
Soldato
I can't really disagree to be honest. I haven't watched She hulk either, but then I don't get Marvel basically so don't watch any of it. I also don't go off and pollute every marvel thread with my views however.
I also think its an age thing however, that no matter how hard we try we become less flexible, less open, more "oh it was better when you could say xyz, and all the actors were white and from an upper class background" etc.
I find the PJ films (LOTR) interesting, I think many have incorrect memories of them, like they were lore perfect etc. Because they were very much not so, and suffered a fair amount of nerd type raging as well.
They also benefitted IMO from being the first in a reimagining for fantasy after many years of it being sidelined. He bashed out some decent films that stood out, and managed to draw in non fantasy fans at that time. I dont think they are particularly special now in some regards. Stuff moves on.
Most of the valid criticisms from lore fans were exactly the sorts of things the non fans loved (bringing up surfing elf again as I still remember the audience reaction, when I face palmed and so did my mates the audience cheered!, well not cheered as such but you know that noise you get when an audience likes something as a whole and reacts audibly in a positive way)
Also lastly again you mention love ("Its great that people love these shows") and I think its a perspective thats wrong, I don't see really any evidence of people loving the shows now, they all seem to get positivity but taking this thread for example I don't see anyone expressing what I could consider love, views seem to range from middling to good.
Some people seem to think its hate or love and nothing in between. If you can't recognise the subtlety of others views then I can see why haters struggle since their views are extreme they can only imagine the opposite views are similarly extreme. (Not saying this describes you just that type, maybe)
I cannot think of a single TV series or film that could not be better in my view, and thats the crux its just my view. Its easy to criticise, very difficult if your convinced it could be done better to put your money where your mouth is and make it so.
Soldato
Yeah but they also try to argue black is white on things like viewing figures as well, and eventually end up nigh on CT level to try to justify their position.
Blinded by hate.
^some interesting discussions on ‘fan hate’ etc above.
I think this issue extends well beyond enjoyment of media and to everyday life. I don’t tend to get too wound up by media, but as personal flaw I can get furiously angry when things aren’t ‘right’. This can be when something spontaneously breaks, when things don’t go to plan, when someone does or doesn’t do something. It can make me a menace
Really, such anger and disappointment (together a form of ‘intolerance’) is a coping mechanism for being unable to deal with a situation not being to my preference. I have way too little tolerance for things not being as I ‘require’. It’s self perpetuating and destructive. Don’t worry, I’m working on it
But it’s funny seeing this sort of thing coming up in this context. It strikes me as being a similar sort of behaviour - people are suffering extreme discomfort that things aren’t to their preference and then become very frustrated about it.
I do wonder if this is a product of the internet age. We are all so in control of our environments, click the button, find the info… that we are all just way too intolerant of things.
Being wound up is not a terrible thing, but if you find yourself really aggrieved by something, perpetually, maybe it’s time for a sense check and to move on towards ‘letting go’. Being less prone to being aggrieved naturally ends up with you being aggrieved less often.
Just some semi-related ramblings, sorry
I think this issue extends well beyond enjoyment of media and to everyday life. I don’t tend to get too wound up by media, but as personal flaw I can get furiously angry when things aren’t ‘right’. This can be when something spontaneously breaks, when things don’t go to plan, when someone does or doesn’t do something. It can make me a menace
Really, such anger and disappointment (together a form of ‘intolerance’) is a coping mechanism for being unable to deal with a situation not being to my preference. I have way too little tolerance for things not being as I ‘require’. It’s self perpetuating and destructive. Don’t worry, I’m working on it
But it’s funny seeing this sort of thing coming up in this context. It strikes me as being a similar sort of behaviour - people are suffering extreme discomfort that things aren’t to their preference and then become very frustrated about it.
I do wonder if this is a product of the internet age. We are all so in control of our environments, click the button, find the info… that we are all just way too intolerant of things.
Being wound up is not a terrible thing, but if you find yourself really aggrieved by something, perpetually, maybe it’s time for a sense check and to move on towards ‘letting go’. Being less prone to being aggrieved naturally ends up with you being aggrieved less often.
Just some semi-related ramblings, sorry
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Caporegime
Not gonna lie, I think that most people over-exaggerate how bothered they are by things. I cannot genuinely believe that people are "left shaking with rage" at some posting a leaflet through their door about something they disagree with. People love hyperbole and I see it all the time on here. People, myself included have hot takes on issues because you generally end up summarising a complex topic that you could discuss for hours into a few sentences. Its hard to convey tone, humour and other emotions and you end up with 2 people arguing against someone who isn't actually making the point you think they are.
I think that RoP is largely a mess in so many ways and could be massively better if they had put more effort into where it matter. Does it negative effect my life at all? Not even a little bit. Do I like discussing it? Yes.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I was more referring to when people do actually have adverse emotional reactions to things.
I acknowledge that disliking something does not necessarily mean that you are having an adverse emotional reaction. But, for many people it can turn into one unnecessarily - just as it does for me sometimes.
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Caporegime
I always find this a strange criticism because I don't think many people have that view at all. I don't think the vast majority of people have issue with casting when it comes to race, gender, sexuality at all. They have issue when its clearly been done for the wrong reasons and with a negative outcome. I have watched plenty of shows with characters who are every gender, sexuality, race and religion and when its done well, its not something you even think about until you see something when its not been done well and the contrast is stark.
People are (rightly in my view) sick of very obvious bias towards certain groups and then being told that they are just being racist etc when they say "look what happens when you care more about the race of your actors than the story you are telling". They aren't saying they don't want to see black actors, they are saying that if you want to make a big deal about the diversity of your cast you had better put as much effort into the actual end product or we will be annoyed. Make a film/tv show with all black actors if you want and if you make it good I will watch it. If you come out before release and make a big deal about the diversity of your cast and turn out a **** product I won't applaud you.
When studios weaponise the gender, sexuality and race of their cast to hide from criticism I think thats scummy as ****. At that point they are doing the complete opposite of what they are purporting to do. They are using those peoples historic discrimination as a cheap shield to protect themselves at the expense of those on the front lines i.e. the actors.
I've watched them a number of times and they are still brilliant. They still hold up amazingly well and outside of a few scenes (legolas surfing) they are still fantastic examples of pretty much anything cinematic. I still get goosebumps at so many scenes. They weren't perfectly true to the lore but they don't have to be. They just have to be faithful to the material and made with care and love for it. Thats the biggest issue I have with RoP. Its set in Tolkiens world but it is not true to it. Its certainly no love letter.
I blame the Americans for this. People love the Hobbit films and genuinely think that the scenes at the end of the third film are amazing and well done. People whoop and holler in the US when captain America comes on screen at the early screenings of the marvel films. People are odd.
Love was probably the wrong word.
I can think of very few but as with anything, you form an overall opinion. Good TV/Film is where you are engrossed, you want to find out what happens next, you effuse about it afterwards, it makes you think, it takes you out of your life and transports you elsewhere. RoP falls down in so many areas in so many little ways and some big ways that its not a "could be better" its a "should be way better" and thats ignoring their resources and budget.
If someone told you to plan a wedding on £3k for 200 people then you would be judged differently on the outcome to if you were given £20k.
Soldato
Not active view but a subconscious impact.
Its deffo there for the vast majority when you look at it.
Its not surprising when you know people will look back fondly to things as they remember the positives but generally not the negatives.
Hence they over state how good the past was. (See Brexit!)
Your not allowed to say things like that round here.
Soldato
It does get better but sadly many of the issues in the first episode prevail throughout the rest of the season.
Caporegime
They return to their homelands.
It was like they were transcending or something.
Caporegime
Fair. If you like the first episode, you'll enjoy the rest. If you think it's okay, the rest is better. If you hate it, the rest won't save it.
Most of what's good, and bad, about it is on display from the start.