I think this Fury deal shows you just how important belts are these days. Fury had the Wilder fight on a plate and has turned it down and signed a deal that means he can only fight on ESPN. He's signed that deal knowing full well that Joshua is highly unlikely to fight anywhere other than DAZN and that Wilder isn't likely to chase him over to ESPN, especially now that he's got Showtime over a barrel. I'm sure these fights will happen eventually but as we've seen with the Joshua/Wilder negotiations and now with both Wilder and Fury, as soon as these guys are in a position to earn big money elsewhere then they're not going to chase the mega fights - they're going to milk these lesser fights for all they're worth and the mega fights will only be worth more and more in the future.
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- Thread starter currantloaf
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Chisora may have been past his prime but his workrate was incredible and was in excellent shape. Chisora when out of shape struggled against Takam but at least knocked him out. Joshua couldn't knock him out, and although he was winning benefited from the ref stopping the fight.
I shouldn't even have to talk about the ref in the Joshua - Parker fight, but Parker is an inside fighter and although Joshua kept him at a distance with the jab, we weren't even allowed to see what happened every time Parker got inside. The ref broke up the match every time they got too close to each other. When there is money involved, there will always be suspect things happening. Its like superstar calls in the NBA. It was dodgy but not as bad a the Wilder - Ortiz fight.
Whilst I want Joshua to knock out Miller, he appears to have had trouble in his last few fights which is worrying. The long break since his last fight may benefit him, but what Miller said about Joshua being given a TUE may have some "substance" to it.
When Whyte fights Joshua again we will be able to see how much he has improved if he can keep his left shoulder together. https://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12183/10102212/dillian-whyte-has-shoulder-operation
In my opinion Whyte last year has been better than any other heavyweight.
All Brazeale has done in his career is lose to Joshua, and has had 1 warm up fight in the last 2 years where he looked awful. Wilder - Brazeale will stuggle to sell out a high school basketball gym.
Soldato
God damit why do you always have to be the voice of reason! You have nailed it be honest. Fury has said its not about the money but its about the belts, so why not fight Wilder
We all know its about money and I don't blame them. They deserve everything they get but don't come out and say it isn't! Bit like Oscar the football player he is open about why he went to China for the money.
Caporegime
Better than last month, when Arnautovic claimed he wanted to go to China for the trophies
Agree with others about the division though. So many mouth watering matchups and none happening. Such a shame.
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Chisora is so hot/cold as a fighter though. I thought he did enough to get the decision over Whyte the first time, to further back up my opinion of Whyte.
I'm cynically aware of how money influences refs, judges etc. And you're right that Wilder-Ortiz was worse.
Agreed about Joshua and Whyte - I actually mentioned Whyte's bad shoulder in the first fight a few pages back in here. Wouldn't be surprised if Whyte was more competitive next time but I expect Joshua to win.
Let me clarify my view about Whyte being overrated: I've seen on boxing forums people believing it's a decent bet that he'll beat up and KO Joshua, as if Whyte has levelled up to become some beast. That's nonsense to me. Whilst I of course agree that his resume is very solid these last few years (clearly better than Wilder's and Fury's efforts), IMO the stylistic match-ups have flattered him and that there's a good reason he avoided Ortiz and Pulev. I think he's clearly the underdog against Joshua/Fury/Wilder head-to-head and is being overrated by those aforementioned people.
I never argued Breazeale is anything special; I simply meant he's a better fighter than Miller, which I realise doesn't say much
.And just to put it out there: prime Lewis would thoroughly outbox, beat up and KO Joshua/Fury/Wilder all within a year. None of those three are worthy of being called great, IMO.
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Soldato
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The networks who are paying these fighters will eventually demand the big matchups when they realise that the smaller fights aren't getting them the PPV/subscriber numbers they were hoping for, but sadly as some of you have said it probably means we won't see them for a few years, by which time some of those fighters might be on the decline.
Permabanned
People do realise that the Fury/Wilder fight has been prosponed rather than cancelled, relax it will happen. It’s funny how people acknowledge that money rules this sport yet think the promoters, fighters or broadcasters will pass up on a big payday.
Mayweather v Pacquaio may have happened too late in the eyes of the fans, the numbers show that it happened at exactly the right time for those involved.
Mayweather v Pacquaio may have happened too late in the eyes of the fans, the numbers show that it happened at exactly the right time for those involved.
Sorry, what's the difference between postponed and cancelled in this instance? Fury was made mandatory and has passed up on that opportunity. He now can only fight on ESPN which means even if he becomes mandatory in the future, if Wilder doesn't want the fight it will be easy for him to avoid it.
And I'm sure these fights will eventually happen but what we're seeing from both the broadcasters and the fighters right now is them maximising the money they can make before they go into these mega fights. If Fury fights Wilder now maybe he gets paid $25-30m but if he loses that fight he's not getting the $100m/5 fight deal from ESPN afterwards. So he's taking that $100m and hoping that somewhere down the line that Wilder fight becomes bigger and he can make more from it. The exact same applies to Wilder btw and given the way the first fight went it makes even more sense to him to avoid the Fury fight until after he's made as much as he can elsewhere. From a fans point of view the best case scenario will be for Wilder to take the Joshua fight in 9-12 months time because win, lose or draw the Fury fight will still be a big fight for him due to the drama of the last fight.
Permabanned
Sorry but Fury has never been the mandatory challenger to Wilder he was ordered by the WBC to fight Fury in a rematch because of the nature of the first fight. Dominic Brazeale is the mandatory even though Whyte is the number 1 ranked, i know the WBC is a strange organisation.
Now Whyte was ordered to fight Pulev for mandatory status for the IBF belt, Whyte turned that down therefore cancelling his opportunity to fight for the IBF belt. Fury has not cancelled anything as there was never a date set for the fight, instead the WBC has confirmed that the rematch has been PROSPONED with talks to resume at a later date.
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You're right, he wasn't mandatory it was ordered - which of course is effectively the same thing. The fight was ordered, had they not agreed a deal by a set date then it would have gone to purse bids - if Fury wanted the fight then the fight would have happened or Wilder would have had to vacate. Fury passed up this opportunity. Can you link me to anywhere where the WBC have said it's simply been postponed please. All I can see is a statement saying Wilder was game but Fury has chose to go elsewhere 'with expectations' to rematch later. I've certainly not seen anything that suggests, with any certainty, that the WBC will order that fight again and of course now that Fury can only fight on ESPN, it makes it incredibly difficult for that fight to be agreed too.
Permabanned
Sorry, what is that? I asked where the WBC said the ordered rematch had been postponed. All the WBC have said is:
Fury has chose to take another fight and expects to do a rematch later, not that the WBC will order it again. And lets be realistic, having passed up on the chance of a rematch I can't see the WBC ordering that fight again.
Permabanned
Stop splitting hairs I just posted a statement from the WBC chairman stating he expects the fight to happen at a later not that the fight will no longer go ahead. If Fury was mandatory then by not taking the rematch to fight someone else he would have forfitted his opportunity, because he’s not the WBC have allowed him to delay or prospone the fight.
I’m not going around in semantic circles with you it’s quite clear what the WBC’s position is. Now if Fury decides he doesn’t want the rematch then that is different but given that Espn have signed him off the back of his new found fame in the US due to the exciting outcome of the last fight, it’s unlikely they will stand in the way of making much more for the rematch.
It would be easier to just admit you're wrong. The fight has not been postponed. No where in the WBC statement does it say that they will order the fight after Fury's next fight - it simply states that Fury pulled out and expectations is that they'll fight later. There's absolutely nothing definitive there and think about it logically - Fury was a voluntary challenger, he's been somewhat fortunate that the WBC ordered the rematch at all. Do you honestly think that Fury can pass up the chance of that rematch and be able to pick and choose when he'll take it?
And you think ESPN won't block the fight if it's not going to be on their platform having committed all that money on him?* The biggest stumbling block to all these fights happening in the future is going to be the broadcasters now. ESPN haven't committed $100m on Fury to see him fight a couple of bums and then fight Wilder on Showtime or Joshua on DAZN. And it's not like previous situations where fighters on two different platforms have reached a compromise and fights have been broadcast on both platforms. Nobody is going to pay $100 to watch a fight on PPV if they can sign up to EPSN for $10(?) for a month.
*This assumes, as Fury said, that he is contracted to only fight on ESPN for his next 5 fights.
edit: and to be clear, I'm sure the fight will happen at some point but it won't be the ordered rematch that was due to happen. That quite clearly has been cancelled.
Permabanned
Ok I’m wrong as are nearly every other publication that have also said the fight is prosponed. Obviously despite the fact that absolutely no one has said the fight will now no longer happen only that it will take place at a later date you must be right.? Or even that it really matters.
Nobody has said it WILL happen at a later date. That's the point. The fight has gone from being ordered and definitely happening (or Wilder vacating) to possibly happening at some point in the future, nobody knows when and if a deal can be agreed between the two. You made a big thing about the fight only being postponed, not cancelled. That's simply not true.
Soldato
So does that mean the fight isn't happening then?
Permabanned
No it has just been prosponed as far as the WBC are concerned otherwise they would have clearly stated otherwise.
However it seems that Bob Arum is being quite astute in his reasoning for wanting Fury to fight someone else first.
He’s not happy with the split and believes that the leverage is with him and Espn that’s why they have done what they’ve done.
However it seems that Bob Arum is being quite astute in his reasoning for wanting Fury to fight someone else first.
He’s not happy with the split and believes that the leverage is with him and Espn that’s why they have done what they’ve done.
They have to say that they are not going to allow Fury to pick and choose when he fights Wilder? If the rematch is still ordered to happen then why not say that the fight will happen next? Why simply say that they expect a rematch at some point in the future?
And the reasoning is nonsense. They simply want to delay the fight to milk Fury against a few bums with the expectation that the Wilder fight will only be worth more in the future.
Anyway we're going around in circles. Imo the fight has clearly been cancelled, even Arum is saying that the will of the WBC means nothing and that is the key difference - the fight has gone from definitely happening to maybe happening. That's not a postponement.
Permabanned
Your arguing semantics they have not stated they have withdrew the offer or anything else they have just said it will happen at a latter date.