*** The Official Elite: Dangerous Thread ***

[Rroff]

Two ships flying in what looks like a realistic dimension fight. Why is this relevant? Because they didn't jitter about therefore indicating there was no lack of precision which means that they have implemented the code from the off to be 64 bit to allow the precision needed to model a galaxy.

There are many different techniques to modelling a large seamless galaxy (besides which most games only work at 1 solar system at a time level and elite dangerous probably won't be any different there). You don't need 64bit precision (within one data type) to do it without jitter.

Does that mean Braben can't pull it off. Of course not but let's be realistic here this is a task that has not been done before, is absolutely immense and has some major major technical challenges to actually even get some of the stuff promised working and working well eg seamless space to planet transition.

That is why am I am sceptical because I fully appreciate the complexity of what he is proposing and because after this time he seems to have less to show for it than other people following down the same path.

Then why not show it? That Josh Parnell bloke doing that Limit Theory has got more to show for just 3 months work (although he appears not to use realistic distances from his video).

Showing off under-lying mechanics with placeholder assets doesn't really show off to the general public very well.

David hasn't made a habit of making promises he has no intention of keeping so I believe hes confident he can pull it off - whether he can or not is another matter but I'm playing wait and see for the interim.

 

[Xordium]

There are many different techniques to modelling a large seamless galaxy (besides which most games only work at 1 solar system at a time level and elite dangerous probably won't be any different there). You don't need 64bit precision (within one data type) to do it without jitter.

How do you realistic distances without it which he said he wanted? 32 doesn't even get you from the Sun to the Earth at 1m by my reckoning that would take 34? (I think). Anyway matters not I am pretty confident they could handle these problems quite nicely.

Showing off under-lying mechanics with placeholder assets doesn't really show off to the general public very well.

David hasn't made a habit of making promises he has no intention of keeping so I believe hes confident he can pull it off - whether he can or not is another matter but I'm playing wait and see for the interim.

Which is fair enough but it just annoys me when everybody shouts you down for being a doubter when actually we've seen little. If a politician made the same bold statements without a recent trackrecord or tangible evidence people would be saying what they see and taking off the rose-tinted glasses.

 

[Xordium]

But you're pledging to build the game, the game's not built yet.

How do you show of underlying techniques. Like the programming for multiplayer, or the code for massive procedural generation?

Also they where not prepared for kickstarter. I made the same mistake I thought the. Name would get the funding needed, and it looked good for the first 24hours.
Now they realize there's not enough info and are rushing out videos etc.

Yep, of course you are correct. You are pledging to make the game. My point is though he said they have been working on this already and they aren't showing anything. The fact they appear to have done so little or have no confidence to show what they have done does not bode well.

He has already showed multiplayer in that last video but the procedural generation he could easily demonstrate in the same way the other devs have.

Again the fact they weren't prepared for Kickstarter hardly breeds trust.

Anyways I should stop being being so argumentative and cynical but I can't really build up much confidence. I'll bow out as I don't want to derail this anymore but I dearly hope it works out even if I don't think it will and that everyone gets the game the want, Braben the money to keep the dev afloat, and space games the recognition and releases they deserve. Hopefully my next post will be 'I was wrong'

 

[V3teran]

Yep, of course you are correct. You are pledging to make the game. My point is though he said they have been working on this already and they aren't showing anything. The fact they appear to have done so little or have no confidence to show what they have done does not bode well.

He has already showed multiplayer in that last video but the procedural generation he could easily demonstrate in the same way the other devs have.

Again the fact they weren't prepared for Kickstarter hardly breeds trust.

Anyways I should stop being being so argumentative and cynical but I can't really build up much confidence. I'll bow out as I don't want to derail this anymore but I dearly hope it works out even if I don't think it will and that everyone gets the game the want, Braben the money to keep the dev afloat, and space games the recognition and releases they deserve. Hopefully my next post will be 'I was wrong'

I hope you are wrong because the PC needs a game like this to give games in general a kick up the arse.

Im really sick and tired of all the console ports, Generic Fps games year in year out.

There is no originallity left and has not been for along time.

This game needs to be made and if it is made i bet it will a brilliant game full of features and good gameplay.

Support the PC guys, Show the devs that PC gamers count by backing Elite Dangerous.

This is no ordinary Space sim, Its not even Wing Commander or Tie Fighter.

This is ELITE, The cream of the crop, The best of the best.

Stop spying and get buying, get your pledge in, You have nothing to lose if the game does not make the target.

You do not lose your money.

 

[Stelly]

I hope you are wrong because the PC needs a game like this to give games in general a kick up the arse.

Im really sick and tired of all the console ports, Generic Fps games year in year out.

There is no originallity left and has not been for along time.

This game needs to be made and if it is made i bet it will a brilliant game full of features and good gameplay.

Support the PC guys, Show the devs that PC gamers count by backing Elite Dangerous.

This is no ordinary Space sim, Its not even Wing Commander or Tie Fighter.

This is ELITE, The cream of the crop, The best of the best.

Stop spying and get buying, get your pledge in, You have nothing to lose if the game does not make the target.

You do not lose your money.

I couldnt agree more, its like the father of all space sim games, but the creator of it, I cant wait to see what this is like, get funding it peeps

Stelly

 

[Xordium]

I hope you are wrong because the PC needs a game like this to give games in general a kick up the arse.

So do I. Knowing my luck though it will be a 11/10 masterpiece but they'll ship it with a red-lenslock and my dodgy eyesight would never fathom that thing these days.

 

[silversurfer]

Anyone remember what rank they got to on their old computer ? I only had this on an 8bit Electron, think I got Mostly Harmless

http://wiki.alioth.net/index.php/Elite_Rankings


I'd only sign up to this if the bloody docking isnt so dam hard

 

[Dano]

Deadly, judging by those numbers per ranking I can't have been far off of Elite, also, docking was simple.

 

[Craig1981]

Can't honestly remember if I got Dangerous or Deadly. I'd like to think it was Deadly, but I might be wrong.

 

[Devlish]

Deadly here. And i hated the dockng computer, preferred to dock myself, most memorable bit of the game!

Not even 600k yet, im starting to worry.

 

[Stelly]

Hey,

I'm not worried at the moment, a lot of people that want to do kickstarter wait untill the last minute, 600k is quite and achievement I think and it will keep on going.

Stelly

 

[Rroff]

How do you realistic distances without it which he said he wanted? 32 doesn't even get you from the Sun to the Earth at 1m by my reckoning that would take 34? (I think). Anyway matters not I am pretty confident they could handle these problems quite nicely.

One method for instance would be to use cells and only have the cells around the player active - so you'd have 2 sets of coordinates one for what position stuff is within its relevant cell and the other what position that cell is within the game world. (If needed you then adjust the world around 0,0,0 to keep things smooth rather than moving the player which used to be needed in earlier versions of DX due to the low floating point precision DX worked with internally).

Hey,

I'm not worried at the moment, a lot of people that want to do kickstarter wait untill the last minute, 600k is quite and achievement I think and it will keep on going.

Stelly

If it gets close but doesn't quite make it I think a lot of people will up their pledge to - I know I would if it was what was needed to make the final push.

 

[Xordium]

One method for instance would be to use cells and only have the cells around the player active - so you'd have 2 sets of coordinates one for what position stuff is within its relevant cell and the other what position that cell is within the game world. (If needed you then adjust the world around 0,0,0 to keep things smooth rather than moving the player which used to be needed in earlier versions of DX due to the low floating point precision DX worked with internally).

Would you do it that way seriously? Do you think he would do it that way? With multiplayer in mind it would be far easier to use 64 bit wouldn't it.

If it gets close but doesn't quite make it I think a lot of people will up their pledge to - I know I would if it was what was needed to make the final push.

I think you are right. Elite has a special place in an awful lot of gamer's hearts that they will make that target happen no matter what.

 

[SiDeards73]

I loved elite, LOVED it, and i got all excited when i see this kickstarter, however i feel a bit underwhelmed by it... that other Space Commander or whatever its called just looks and sounds so much better? But this is Elite!! it has to be good.. right?? Fingers crossed, i played Elite and Frontiers for months even years, hopefully we get the same mileage outta this?

Si

 

[Rroff]

Would you do it that way seriously? Do you think he would do it that way? With multiplayer in mind it would be far easier to use 64 bit wouldn't it.

It was just an example that there are quite a few other ways of dealing with the precision issues of large distances other than using one massively precise data type. Not applicable to all types of data processing but for games systems like that usually work fine.

PS I had a similiar system working fine (including handling network streamed data) when messing around with the kind of tech needed to make a game like elite back in 2005 or so. I'm no expert games programmer but something like elite isn't totally outside of my capabilities ( completely lol worthy* screenshot from one of the stress tests rather than accurately modelling space that I did http://aten-hosted.com/images/stest3.jpg - bare in mind this was ~2005 on an nVidia 5900XT).



* Yes I know you don't get astroid fields like that around a sun and those astroids would be 10s of 1000s of KM across to scale.

 

[Bodom]

Hey,

I'm not worried at the moment, a lot of people that want to do kickstarter wait untill the last minute, 600k is quite and achievement I think and it will keep on going.

Stelly

I hope so, would be totaly gutted if this game fails to meet it's target.

 

[V3teran]

Im always on kickstarter comments and the reckoning is that Braben has a plan.

He said its all about pacing yourself.

Also the Writer Drew Wagner is causing a lot of publicity worldwide for writing the Elite Book, This has also helped with pledges.

Almost 300 new pledges yesterday.

I reckon in the last 30 days Braben is gonna unleash lots of updates.


As the dev John Kelly said to me "This is the calm before the storm".

Get your pledges in people and help this game to be made, Once in a lifetime opportunity.

If we do our part then im sure Braben will do his

 

[V3teran]

Game funding is at 606k now with 37 days left.
Braben said an update will come at around the half way mark at 625k so i reckon around friday hopefully.

 

[Xordium]

It was just an example that there are quite a few other ways of dealing with the precision issues of large distances other than using one massively precise data type. Not applicable to all types of data processing but for games systems like that usually work fine.

PS I had a similiar system working fine (including handling network streamed data) when messing around with the kind of tech needed to make a game like elite back in 2005 or so. I'm no expert games programmer but something like elite isn't totally outside of my capabilities ( completely lol worthy* screenshot from one of the stress tests rather than accurately modelling space that I did http://aten-hosted.com/images/stest3.jpg - bare in mind this was ~2005 on an nVidia 5900XT).

* Yes I know you don't get astroid fields like that around a sun and those astroids would be 10s of 1000s of KM across to scale.

Hey don't knock yourself. I know a bit about this because a couple years back I made a procedural galaxy cause well Elite you know same reasons as you I guess. And it's hardly easy. I went from macro - used a cross section and top down to determine the star-density and then the pseudorandom to get the consistent spread for a set spawn probability etc (eg O,B,A,E,K,M). I got down to representing the solar system and some basic planetary LOD (using a cube as a starting point) then tried the atmospheric scattering before my head exploded and time meant I had to do some proper work. Was good fun though. But don't knock yourself stuff like this is hard and you did well getting that done! Should't sell yourself short you know!

 

[v85rawdeal]

Imagine, if you will, an entire galaxy of 256 star systems, each with their own economy, crammed into an executable program smaller in memory size than your average forum avatar.

Now, imagine eight of these galaxies, each unique, crammed into the same memory. That was Elite. An entire universe in just 22kb of memory.

Remember back to the first time you played Ocarina of Time and you emerged out onto Hyrule Field and the sense of awe that struck you as you looked on at that green expanse. Well, David Braben and Ian Bell managed to generate that feeling 14 years previously with Elite.

Except, unlike Ocarina, you couldn’t just go left or right, forward or backward. You could go upwards, downwards, turnwise or widdershins. No set path, no goal on the horizon, just you and space. Lots of space.

Imagine a game that didn’t hold your hand; a game that set you out on your path with just a handful of currency. A game that required you to master the art of docking your ship in a small, rotating rectangle without any aids. (The docking computer was available, but cost 4 x your starting credits).

Elite had no adjustable difficulty levels; it just was what it was and you just existed in it. Take a jump into the wrong system, or carry the wrong cargo and your very existence was at risk. The game didn’t deliberately try and kill you, it just made sure you knew that each journey could be your last.

Very few games nowadays give you feeling of uncertainty; both Demons’ and Dark Souls manage it. But it seems that gamers need something to hold their hands. But now we have the chance to celebrate the rebirth of one of the greatest games ever released.

We have the chance to feel that sense of awe again; a chance to break away from the norm and spread our wings and fly to distant corners. Not constrained by invisible walls or campaigns. A chance to truly be free and to explore a play area so large that we cannot even begin to imagine what the furthest edge of it looks like.

This is what Elite: Dangerous offers us. Not a 30 hour story. Not a game with a defined beginning, middle and end. But a game with only one point of definition: The beginning. Everything after that point is fair game and our story to write.