*** The Official Microsoft Surface Thread ***

You mean apart from better built, higher specs and cost less. As well as being faster. 800 is faster than bay trail and the 805 will absolutely demolish the bay trail. There really needs to be more than one consumer level atom tablets. That one is Lenovo ThinkPad 8"(even that suffers when you fit a nice screen etc, with poor battery life), the rest are corporate, low resolution, horribly designed and expensive.
That would massively improve the atom image, if they mad a Lumina 2520 or surface equivalent.



Interesting what the cherry trail will bring compared to the 805, should be in tablets for Christmas sales.
And young realy don't want to be using desktop apps on a tablet, let alone a 7-8", although it is a workable stop gap, until the app market grows significantly.
And that's what we really need is apps transferring to metro.
 
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My Surface appears to have developed a mind of it's own in the last couple of days. It keeps flipping between whatever is active and the Start screen whilst doing the haptic feedback thing, sometimes once, others multiple times. Disconnecting the touch cover doesn't help. I'm thinking the touch sensitive sensor thing under the Windows logo is banjaxed.

I've already cleaned the screen. Anyone got a better idea before I phone MS?

It's doubly annoying as I've been using it as a replacement of sorts while my Radeongate MacBook Pro is in the hospital.
 
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Glaucus said:
You mean apart from better built, higher specs and cost less. As well as being faster. 800 is faster than bay trail and the 805 will absolutely demolish the bay trail. There really needs to be more than one consumer level atom tablets. That one is Lenovo ThinkPad 8"(even that suffers when you fit a nice screen etc, with poor battery life), the rest are corporate, low resolution, horribly designed and expensive.
That would massively improve the atom image, if they mad a Lumina 2520 or surface equivalent.



Interesting what the cherry trail will bring compared to the 805, should be in tablets for Christmas sales.
And young realy don't want to be using desktop apps on a tablet, let alone a 7-8", although it is a workable stop gap, until the app market grows significantly.
And that's what we really need is apps transferring to metro.
Click to expand...

RT doesn't have anything to do with the build quality though lol, MS could make the Surface Mini Baytrail and good build quality.

Windows RT needs to go, many many people feel this way, it's STILL failing to attract app's (Well, the Windows 8 store in general still has massive omission, but being X86, that's easily worked around, Android's had a belter title in Walking Dead, iOS has it, your Baytrail tablets would be able to play the X86 version which is unoptimised in comparison to the ARM variants, but the ARM Tegra 4 chips don't even have the chance, yet you'll get people playing the game on phones with worse specs)
Snapdragon 800's not faster than Baytrail when it comes to the CPU, GPU terms yeah sure, but the GPU part is just a crippled HD4000 which is oldish.

They also don't need to be low res.

The HP Omni 10 comes in at 250 last check, 1080p Baytrail tablet, in pure spec, it's hard to deny it's ridiculous value.
 
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Glaucus said:
You mean apart from better built, higher specs and cost less. As well as being faster. 800 is faster than bay trail and the 805 will absolutely demolish the bay trail. There really needs to be more than one consumer level atom tablets. That one is Lenovo ThinkPad 8"(even that suffers when you fit a nice screen etc, with poor battery life), the rest are corporate, low resolution, horribly designed and expensive.
That would massively improve the atom image, if they mad a Lumina 2520 or surface equivalent.



Interesting what the cherry trail will bring compared to the 805, should be in tablets for Christmas sales.
And young realy don't want to be using desktop apps on a tablet, let alone a 7-8", although it is a workable stop gap, until the app market grows significantly.
And that's what we really need is apps transferring to metro.
Click to expand...

RT tablets are generally better made, but only if we ignore all of the third party trash that was released during the first generation. The truth is, Nokia and Microsoft (so I guess just Microsoft now?) make good Windows tablets. Everyone else makes cheap Windows tablets (with inflated RRPs and massive price drops over the six months following launch). ARM/Atom has little to do with that - where Windows is concerned the strategy of third parties will probably always be the same.

Atom vs ARM isn't about the physical characteristics of the tablet, or what other components the manufacturer chooses to use. It's about the closing performance per watt gap and backwards compatibility. Bay Trail isn't the fastest mobile chip on the market, but it is in the same ball park as the Snapdragon 800 and Tegra 4. Why compromise? With each new generation, that question will become more prominent and RT will make less sense.
 
People saying Windows 8 needs to go are just silly.
But Windows RT is inferior to the competition in many aspects, sure it's better in others, but when MS already have an all around superior in every way OS (X86 Windows 8), it makes little sense to keep Windows RT.

Especially when they've just wrote off the price on the smaller tablets for Windows 8!

There's just too many omissions on Windows Store, once Intel's got a beefier IGP (Say when 14nm comes along) I'd struggle to see why MS wouldn't go with Intel.
 
satchef1 said:
4. Why compromise? With each new generation, that question will become more prominent and RT will make less sense.
Click to expand...

However that doesn't look like the case, looks like 805 will constable beat the cherry trail. Although cherry trail is domfar away it's anyone guess.
But what Qualcomm and Intel have said about percentage wise increase over last gen, 805 will easily best cherry trail. Be nice if Intel pull it out the bag.

Why compromise? Is it a compromise, mist people do not need legacy support, look at apple and android. Using legacy apps on a tablet is a pitta. what we need is aggressive app development, to port them over.
 
I think Snapdragon 805's more GPU grunt gain over CPU gain? Sure it'll gain CPU, but it's going to gain more GPU grunt.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cherrytrail was a faster CPU part.
 
Martini1991 said:
RT doesn't have anything to do with the build quality though lol, MS could make the Surface Mini Baytrail and good build quality.

Windows RT needs to go, many many people feel this way, it's STILL failing to attract app's (Well, the Windows 8 store in general still has massive omission, but being X86, that's easily worked around, Android's had a belter title in Walking Dead, iOS has it, your Baytrail tablets would be able to play the X86 version which is unoptimised in comparison to the ARM variants, but the ARM Tegra 4 chips don't even have the chance, yet you'll get people playing the game on phones with worse specs)
Snapdragon 800's not faster than Baytrail when it comes to the CPU, GPU terms yeah sure, but the GPU part is just a crippled HD4000 which is oldish.

They also don't need to be low res.

The HP Omni 10 comes in at 250 last check, 1080p Baytrail tablet, in pure spec, it's hard to deny it's ridiculous value.
Click to expand...

There's a more interesting point in there; the GPU in the Snapdragon 800 is faster, but what's the point in having that power when the Windows Store misses out on the most advanced mobile games? Often, these games are ports from the PC, or they make their way to the PC in other ways (Steam Greenlight, Humble etc.), so the Atom powered tablet will at least get a shot at running them. Given mobile games generally don't have graphics options and are aimed at being playable on middle of the pack hardware, the Atom chips will still run any prospective Windows Store ports, just a few FPS slower.
 
Glaucus said:
Why compromise? Is it a compromise, mist people do not need legacy support, look at apple and android. Using legacy apps on a tablet is a pitta. what we need is aggressive app development, to port them over.
Click to expand...

iOS and Android have a crap ton more app's and a crap ton more alternatives.
MS have thus far struggled to get the push they need for apps.

Sure, App's on Windows Store when done properly tend to be very good ; Facebook/Netflix.

But STILL no Spotify, STILL no VLC (For ARM).

And where's those massive leaps in mobile gaming? Not on Windows 8 Store, that's where (Props for Fifa 14, but meh about the lack of controller support for an "Xbox title")
 
satchef1 said:
There's a more interesting point in there; the GPU in the Snapdragon 800 is faster, but what's the point in having that power when the Windows Store misses out on the most advanced mobile games? Often, these games are ports from the PC, or they make their way to the PC in other ways (Steam Greenlight, Humble etc.), so the Atom powered tablet will at least get a shot at running them. Given mobile games generally don't have graphics options and are aimed at being playable on middle of the pack hardware, the Atom chips will still run any prospective Windows Store ports, just a few FPS slower.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, I agree.
There's absolutely nothing to stress what's in the Surface 2 really, and a lot of the performance issues can be down to Windows RT limitations itself, hence why we'll never see a PS1 emulator, but people have done so one Xperia Play's with vastly inferior set ups.

My GF played Walking Dead on her Samsung S3, the Tegra 4's much more powerful, but Windows Store just doesn't have it.

Like the rumours for Surface 3 are the upcoming Tegra chip. Seriously, what's the point?
 
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Glaucus said:
However that doesn't look like the case, looks like 805 will constable beat the cherry trail. Although cherry trail is domfar away it's anyone guess.
But what Qualcomm and Intel have said about percentage wise increase over last gen, 805 will easily best cherry trail. Be nice if Intel pull it out the bag.

Why compromise? Is it a compromise, mist people do not need legacy support, look at apple and android. Using legacy apps on a tablet is a pitta. what we need is aggressive app development, to port them over.
Click to expand...

So on one hand you tout the power of the ARM chips, then on the other you tout the needs of the average user? If the Windows Store wasn't so barren, there might be a tenuous point in there somewhere. As it stands, there's little point in the 'which stick is the biggest' argument because the software available on RT is all so basic. Which applications will showcase the extra power of the Snapdragon 805? I suspect the will be little discernable difference outside of benchmarks.
 
There's lots of points you wing attract developers with out-dated hardware, and you are unlikely to see phones with atom chips as standard.
The whole point with win8 is to combine all the OS in to one. Wp8.1 and w8.11 take this a step further making it one store rather than two and further reduce the programming difference between the apps.

It makes zero sense for rt to be replaced. Other than for you who seem to want it to die, for no reason, other than you personally don't like it.

However I wouldn't be surprised if the mini is atom, as every other mini is atom based, it all depends of its marketed at consumer or enterprise.

With each windows update 100s well last one was several thousand of extra API are being added to metro. Rt and x86
 
It's not that I don't like Windows RT, but seriously, it's so limited, how can anyone not see that?

On an X86 tablet, say for arguments sake it had the exact same performance as the Tegra 4, you'd be able to do full PC gaming at 1080p over Steam Streaming.

But on my Windows RT tablet? Nope, can't do that, even though I've got the spec for it, and my chip is used precisely for that feature in another tablet ; Shield.

Heck, I can do streaming with my phone using splashtop HD as it seems to have GPU acceleration.

Can't even run FM 14 using what's available for Windows RT!

It's just silly things like that, it's just too limited. Sure, they may be "niche" things, but why the hell can the "free" OS android manage it!? Or the now "free" OS of Windows 8 on 8" tablets!
 
It's not limited at all, it's the apps which ate lacking.

That's the thing though. Tablets aren't the same. Rt tablets are better built, higher spec and cheaper.

I'm glad you two aren't in charge of MS, otherwise you would leave phone and windows separate for ever.
That's not to say MS haven't bulled up, they have in many ways, killing RT however is not a solution.
Sat here happily on an RT tablet and does far far more than the iPad it replaced.
 
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There's no arguing with you Glau, seriously no point, it's just a straw man argument after another, with points that aren't exclusive to your argument, while ignoring anything that doesn't fit your "thesis" ; http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=TB-000-AS&groupid=959&catid=1882 (You know, when Windows RT launched, until everyone but MS dropped it, and Nokia (Who frankly don't count, as they're MS pretty much.....) joined in, tablets for Windows RT bar Surface were all like that. Hell, there's still Tegra 3 Yoga's for what now? 700 QUID!)
 
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