*** The Official Microsoft Surface Thread ***

satchef1 said:
And this is an argument for Windows RT, how?

I think you confuse things. I'm not against the Windows Store, WinRT (as in, Windows Runtime) or the concept of universal apps. Quite the opposite. As the Windows Store becomes more populated, the move might even make system architecture irrelevant. That isn't today though. And the success of this plan isn't dependent on the success on Windows RT. Windows RT (as a consumer tablet OS) could exit the market today and it wouldn't affect the overarching plan in the slightest.

It's not even that I don't like RT. I just don't see the point in it for a consumer tablet given Windows 8 has everything Windows RT has and more. If they can get RT running well on lower spec'd hardware then maybe it has a future in low cost computers for emerging markets or schools, or as part of the Internet of Things?
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It very much would affect the plan. Where's the connection between atm phones and z86 tablets, win rt is very much needed for cross platform apps.
Especially as the next major update is rumoured to merge rt and wp into one phone/tablet OS.

And theological reason for RT to exit the market place?


Martini1991 said:
Occams Razer, and that's how I see it, you're entitled to see it another way, but every ARM compiled Windows RT Video app not working with this specific codec but the X86 compiled one does?
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It's not my opinion its fact. There are more built in codecs in x86
 
Glaucus said:
That's the thing though. Tablets aren't the same. Rt tablets are better built, higher spec and cheaper.
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Circular argument, much?

Is the higher build quality and better spec an attribute of the platform? Or is it
down to Microsoft/Nokia building these 'high quality' tablets that you refer to. I recall plenty of cheaply made Windows RT tablets retailing at vastly inflated prices from the same manufacturers now churning out cheaply made Atom tablets for much more realistic prices (£180-£250 for 8" tabs, £230-£300 for 10" tabs).

Could you point me in the direction of a better built, higher spec, cheaper RT tablet please? I can tick one or two of those boxes, but all three elude me.
 
It's not circular, and no it's not down to it being rt. It's just the way the market currently stands. There's nothing stopping a manufacturer releasing a consumer grade Atom tablet.

Haha, I think you'll find 10" where more like 600 not under the 300 range and with heavier, thicker and lower screen resolution, viewing angles etc.

Even the newer dells are more expensive and worse than surface2
 
Glau, are you ignoring the original Windows RT tablets? They were the same resolution at 1366x768, same as some of the 10" tablets at the time, some of the 10" tablets now.
And the Asus ME400C was 400 quid, it went down to 300. The Dell XPS was 450 with the keyboard, 350 without. The Asus being X86, the Dell being ARM.

The HP omni is 250 quid, 10" 1080p.
 
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Martini1991 said:
Well then the vast vast vast majority of tablets are crap then, because most use mini USB's :p
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Ignore the poor battery life are we, mini USB is acceptable if the tablet is thin, I hope everything moves to micro USB, but unfortunately almost nothing is. However the Omni 10 is not thin, so there's no need for it to be mini. Now take some of the android or newer iPads and you couldn't fit a full USB without a bulge.
 
I didn't want to comment on battery until I checked reviews, and it pegs it at 8 hours.

Not terrible in the slightest.

And it's 1mm fatter than the Surface 2...
 
Glaucus said:
Well you heed to read up more on the o's, perhaps watch all the keynotes from MS events and perhaps you wouldn't think like you do. amongst other things it can log you into public networks automatically, something ios doesn't do.
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Just gotta stop by to say that you're wrong. iOS 7 supports 'Hotspot 2.0' which handles things such as automatic login to captive portals and roam between them. It's how I can use iTunes Match on the tube.
 
Surface 2 video playback is smidge over 10hrs in tests.

And that's my point, why micro USB?
Your trading a full fat USB for thinnest? Or wait no. They've chose to trade usefulness gor nothing. Where other tablets have traded full USB fir thinness as well as less USB periphals being used on purely media consumption tablets.
 
Glaucus said:
It very much would affect the plan. Where's the connection between atm phones and z86 tablets, win rt is very much needed for cross platform apps.
Especially as the next major update is rumoured to merge rt and wp into one phone/tablet OS.

And theological reason for RT to exit the market place?
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So what you're saying is, developers can soon build apps that work across Windows PCs, Windows tablets, Windows RT tablets, Windows Phone and Xbox. If Windows RT flops (which it is doing quite successfully at the moment) or Microsoft moves to Atom chips for its Surface line, then the whole plan is doomed?

I guess developers will just go 'Nah, I don't want my apps to work across Windows PCs, Windows tablets, Windows Phone and Xbox. It's just not worth it without Windows RT - I'll go back to building x86 apps.'?

Yeah, right. If that's the case, it couldn't have been a very appealing proposition in the first place.

WinRT's appeal comes from the way it enables Windows applications to transcend architectures and form factors. Looking ahead at the Internet of Things movement, this allows Microsoft and Windows developers to respond quickly to new markets and opportunities. We could, for example, see in-car support added at a future date. Windows RT (as a tablet OS) is a mere spec in terms of the potential uses for WinRT. WinRT will live or die on its own merits, not the success or failure of ARM-powered Windows tablets.
 
Glaucus said:
Surface 2 video playback is smidge over 10hrs in tests.

And that's my point, why micro USB?
Your trading a full fat USB for thinnest? Or wait no. They've chose to trade usefulness gor nothing. Where other tablets have traded full USB fir thinness as well as less USB periphals being used on purely media consumption tablets.
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That's some weird logic you've got going on there :p
8 hours of battery life isn't poor because the Surface 2 does 10 hours.
 
Caged said:
Just gotta stop by to say that you're wrong. iOS 7 supports 'Hotspot 2.0' which handles things such as automatic login to captive portals and roam between them. It's how I can use iTunes Match on the tube.
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I maybe wrong but this isn't what I really meant. I mean pay connections like premier in hotels. Once you long in once it'll auto log in again, where ios could never do that. Hotspot 2 is for free WiFi as far as I know. Although I haven't used ios7 so I may well be wrong.
Were older tablets phones, it's really annoying every time you walk out the room, you have to manually log back in again.
 
Glaucus said:
8 hours is pretty poor in modern tablets. That's a 20% reduction. Especially as some atom tablets are getting 12+hrs
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By your logic Surface 2 has poor battery performance if you can get 12+ from Atom (Which you've touted previously as having inferior battery to Windows RT tablets)
 
Martini1991 said:
By your logic Surface 2 has poor battery performance if you can get 12+ from Atom (Which you've touted previously as having inferior battery to Windows RT tablets)
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Show me one tablet that has everything, decent screen decent battery life, decent price etc? It also depends on battery size, which affects size and weight.
 
The Surface 2 is 48% more expensive than the Omni 10...

Fact is, there isn't an x86 Windows tablet that matches the Surface. The majority of manufacturers (across all platforms) avoid the £350+ tablet sector like the plague. Them be the iPad killing fields. Anything in that bracket gets discounted quickly, and usually has such discounts built in to it's BOM. When you don't do this you get 1st gen Surface style losses.
 
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