Soldato
***The Official Nokia Lumia 920 Thread***
- Thread starter RSR
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Yes I appreciate it's a different OS but you wouldn't know it from looking at it, my point was I haven't seen a good technical reason 7 was made into a dead end and I adopted Windows phone early because I was expecting a flurry of updates from Microsoft such as app improvement to drive adoption which never happened, it's not unreasonable for me to think Microsoft will make the same mistakes. The live account can handle small details but what if I want to chuck up a bunch of music? I use Zune, which they're abandoning or are they? Is it Xbox music but I thought Xbox was for games? Hey I bet Microsoft call it Zune box in Windows 9! I'm exaggerating of course but it all screams Microsoft management is a bunch of headless chickens.
As awful as iTunes is it just works for a lot of people and it's seen as a big part of the Apple system, I don't think it's unfair for me to wonder wtf Microsoft is going to use instead and I'm not expecting any measure of support in areas such as wireless printing etc.
I'm using Windows 8 on my main PC and Server 2012 for development, I'm made painfully aware of that fact every time it starts up and the mouse/keyboard don't work due to hibernation (and as I have a fast machine I can't even guarantee to fix it by holding down the power button) or it throws a DPC_WATCHDOG_VIOLATION, or apps not installing by default.
Don't misunderstand, I *like* Windows 8 but I'm getting tired of these little problems and does anyone really think these issues are going to be tolerated by the average punter?
Soldato
Think I will be getting my hands on a Nokia 920 mid October - fingers crossed! 
Frankly you must be blind, you say you are a developer and can't see the reason, why a shared kernal is so much better than windows mobile that well didn't support most hardware, let alone made it easy to port apps from wp8 to w8 RT to w8
As for your error, loads of us use hibernation with zero issues and its also a beta so could be your end or could be solved in final release.
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Still not seeing a good explanation there as to why Windows Phone 7 devices are made into a dead end, I expect it's to make us have some clear reasons for upgrading but going back to my original point, where are the feature changes that are the real drivers of this? Right now based on what we do know as an end user what reasons would I have from upgrading from 7.5 to 8? I love what I've seen on the hardware, IS on the camera, big displays, wireless charging, NFC etc is all great stuff and what's my killer feature on the software? Being able to pick favourites rather than refresh in IE?
Unless Microsoft has hidden them away they're going to have to be all on the Windows 8 side of things but they don't appear to be in the RTM so are they going to be some kind of download like the earlier Microsoft synch centers? As I said before, it does make me concerned as despite my preference for Windows Phone I don't fancy being in the red headed step child smartphone category again and I could live with that (as I have with my Lumia 800) if Microsoft were actually updating the apps, adding much needed features and fixing bugs etc but that's not what happened with 7.5 why should I trust Microsoft now?
I do like the suggestion that I'm merely claiming to be a developer and I'm blind, you've rumbled me I'm really an Apple or Google employee out to besmirch poor Microsoft!
Plural, I'm having multiple problems and I'm not using a beta, I'm a developer remember? I'm using the RTM off MSDN and several other people have reported the same hibernation issue in this forum. They're infrequent issues (besides the app installation one) so I can live with them and they're most likely down to out dated drivers but unless something radical changes end users are going to have the same problems and they are going to be far less tolerant of them than I am.
Take your blinkers off, nothing improves if you pretend the problems aren't there.
If you were a developer, you should know and understand why wp8 and wp7 are not the same in the slightest. You should also realize the benefits of a shared kernal and the benefits that brings to cross platform apps. So you probably just got fingers in your ears so you can have a little rant.
A lot of syncing is built in as you should know with w8, they've also rebranded/changed/upadated Zune and that will be released at some point (probably at the confrence)
MS have allready said they will support hardware for 18months. And wp9 will be out 2014 with phones from early 2013 and before not being supported.
Why you ask, probably due to fragmentation, something android is massively struggling with and is trying ro change, albeit in a slow way to disguise it. There's also the fact that the hardware is unlikely to support many of the new features in wp8.
Have you used metro ie10, that's what's being included in wp8
There's also plenty of new features if you have a read around, most stuff has been revealed
Nokia maps, skyp etc built into OS
Business area app thing, which combined with windows tablets, secure boot and full encryption, is going to be a massive steal for coporation sales and far above the competition ATM.
You have the child lock stuff.
Obviously we have the improved hardware support, multi core, NFC, screen res and the like.
We have the improved OS APIs allowing apps to do more, which although isn't in the customers eyes, will see a huge benefit.
Multitaksing.
Intact have a little read
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/20/3...reenshots-features-nfc-start-screen-dual-core
A lot of syncing is built in as you should know with w8, they've also rebranded/changed/upadated Zune and that will be released at some point (probably at the confrence)
MS have allready said they will support hardware for 18months. And wp9 will be out 2014 with phones from early 2013 and before not being supported.
Why you ask, probably due to fragmentation, something android is massively struggling with and is trying ro change, albeit in a slow way to disguise it. There's also the fact that the hardware is unlikely to support many of the new features in wp8.
Have you used metro ie10, that's what's being included in wp8
There's also plenty of new features if you have a read around, most stuff has been revealed
Nokia maps, skyp etc built into OS
Business area app thing, which combined with windows tablets, secure boot and full encryption, is going to be a massive steal for coporation sales and far above the competition ATM.
You have the child lock stuff.
Obviously we have the improved hardware support, multi core, NFC, screen res and the like.
We have the improved OS APIs allowing apps to do more, which although isn't in the customers eyes, will see a huge benefit.
Multitaksing.
Intact have a little read
http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/20/3...reenshots-features-nfc-start-screen-dual-core
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What's the benefit of upgrading your SGS2 to an SGS3, or your iPhone4 to iPhone5? There is normally little difference in the software, a few added bits here, slight redesign there. In fact the jump from WP7.5 to 8 is significantly larger than the jump from any other OS version in recent years (just look at iOS5 to 6 for example). WP7 isn't a dead end anyway, it is still being supported (7.8 coming soon) and there may be a large number of low end/cheap phones coming out over the next year with it on. Yes some of the apps in the marketplace may not work because they are designed for WP8 instead, but then have you seen Googles Play, which is a minefield of apps that don't work on specific versions of OS's and hardware, iOS has a similar problem. As for suggesting that WP7.5 didn't have lots of updated apps, features and bug fixes go back to WP7 and see what you can't do that you can do now*.
*You forget just how limited WP7 was when it first came out compared to now until you try it. I had my phone repaired last month and it was sent back with the original RTM WP7 software which after using WP7 was like using phone from the dark ages.
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I agree with what you're saying about the relative upgrade value on a platform but you're comparing it to two very established platforms and if 7.5 couldn't drive Windows Phone adoption then I'm not really clear how 8 is going to do so as from an end user perspective the phone experience is more or less the same and before Glaucus beats me up about the kernel that isn't going to help adoption in the short term.
Part of my concern in this area stems from my experiences with 7.5, sometimes the software doesn't work so well but Microsoft have effectively washed their hands of this version once they release the update for the home screen but if I'd gone with iOS I know I'm going to get the newer iOS releases and if I'd gone with Android I know I'll get a constant stream of app updates (admittedly no guarantee on the newer major OS revisions).
I really don't mind adopting a new platform but I do so with the expectation there's going to be lots of work going into improving it and has that really happened with Windows phone recently? I'm not personally bothered by the lack of certain apps because I use all the major platforms but I am bothered that the inbuilt stuff isn't really being touched unless I upgrade to a new phone. Hopefully Microsoft will have some pleasant surprises in store as the release draws closer, I'm fairly (fairly!) sure the 920 is the right hardware for me but I'm becoming less certain about the platform.
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Well I hope so but my comments stem from the information we've seen on the Windows Phone 8 SDK leak:
That only shows you what apps/settings are in there. It doesn't really tell anyone anything. As all of that was disclosed allready.
It doesn't show you anything about any off the issues you had with wp7.5 as those issues are not apps/settings.
Telling you it's a new kernal isn't about adoption. It's about trying to make you understand you can't compare it to wp7, you saying wp7 does this means little, its pretty much totally rebuilt, so there no reason to say wp8 must do things in the same way. So untill is revealed it's impossible to compare the two.
As I said in the other thread, that video is extremely boring and pointless as it doesn't actually show anything usefull.
It doesn't show you anything about any off the issues you had with wp7.5 as those issues are not apps/settings.
Telling you it's a new kernal isn't about adoption. It's about trying to make you understand you can't compare it to wp7, you saying wp7 does this means little, its pretty much totally rebuilt, so there no reason to say wp8 must do things in the same way. So untill is revealed it's impossible to compare the two.
As I said in the other thread, that video is extremely boring and pointless as it doesn't actually show anything usefull.
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Soldato
I have actual been looking at this part as we develop a lot of apps, and right now its not exactly shared, you have 2 different projects if you want to develop for both platform and there is some code sharing but it is not as easy or as you might think. There is surely ways to sure code between the 2 but at first glace it seemed to a much harder and it takes more work, we cant be 100% sure as we dont have the full SDK but from the leak I use it wasnt very simple.
Every platform is fragmented, but I don't see what MS as doing being any better at all, its worse, most android apps still work on 2.2 so although you might not have the latest OS you get most apps and so on. MS is effectively killing off most users and your forced to upgrade, if you had one of the OG wp7 phones I guess its okay, but something like the L900 was released very recently. Also for the longest time WP fanbois were always saying how they would be getting WP8 and its not like android were you dont get upgrades, tbh it seems worse.
I'm really hope IE10 is good, for years my life is been sadden by the crappy thing that is IE that nothing ever works on
Some of the features code easily come to older phones, and some things could just be removed, e.g. multitasking like its done on 3GS.
Off course the biggest change is the new core and so on, but clearly MS have been dropping the ball for a long time, they didn't react quickly to the iPhone, when they did they release WP7 which not only killed of Winmob but it was also way behind the curve albeit it looking really good, polished and a very good UI. Now wp8 is coming out which should catch up with everyone, and I really hope it does, but it does seem like a slap in the face of most customers who are trying to support the platform.
How's is it fragmented at all?
Wp7 phones aren't upgraded. Ms gp have set screen resolutions and hardware.
Android on the other hand haven't set anything, many apps just lag on cheap phones and there's loads of apps that don't work on the majority of phones, there's even some apps that only work on a handful of phones.
You can say a lot of stuff about wp8, but I can't see how you can call it fragmented at all.
As for upgrades, it's likely wp7 devices simply can't support wp8 properly. They needed the clean cut. Going forward ms have allready announced phones will be updated from MS(rather than phone manufactures, again removing yet another fragmentation opportunity) for at least 18 months.
Ie10 is exceptionally good, I've ditched Firefox in favor off it. As far as I have read the metro ie10 is exactly what we are getting in wp8.
You won't devlop for both platforms, you will devlop for win8, wp7 is to small and a dead platform. Frankly a developer who developed for that rather than w8 would be very short sighted, some might devlop for both however. Devlop for w8 and you have the shared kernal and its very easy to port to win rt and w8, opening your app up to 10s of millions more devices.
I don't see it as a slap in the face really, people on wp7 have had them for a long time, even the experts and analysis are saying it doesn't matter and that certain media articles are overhyping. Most people get a new phone when their contract is up anyway, making it redundant. The few like me who keep hold of the phone for potentially longer, is quite a small percent.
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Soldato
How's is it fragmented at all?
Wp7 phones aren't upgraded. Ms gp have set screen resolutions and hardware.
Android on the other hand haven't set anything, many apps just lag on cheap phones and there's loads of apps that don't work on the majority of phones, there's even some apps that only work on a handful of phones.
You can say a lot of stuff about wp8, but I can't see how you can call it fragmented at all.
As for upgrades, it's likely wp7 devices simply can't support wp8 properly. They needed the clean cut. Going forward ms have allready announced phones will be updated from MS(rather than phone manufactures, again removing yet another fragmentation opportunity) for at least 18 months.
Ie10 is exceptionally good, I've ditched Firefox in favor off it. As far as I have read the metro ie10 is exactly what we are getting in wp8.
You won't devlop for both platforms, you will devlop for win8, wp7 is to small and a dead platform. Frankly a developer who developed for that rather than w8 would be very short sighted, some might devlop for both however. Devlop for w8 and you have the shared kernal and its very easy to port to win rt and w8, opening your app up to 10s of millions more devices.
I don't see it as a slap in the face really, people on wp7 have had them for a long time, even the experts and analysis are saying it doesn't matter and that certain media articles are overhyping. Most people get a new phone when their contract is up anyway, making it redundant. The few like me who keep hold of the phone for potentially longer, is quite a small percent.
I'm not saying wp8 is fragmented but the WP platform is, right now there is phones with 256mb that are just as bad as the cheapo android phones, wp8 seems like it wont be having that issue but it will take a while for wp8 to surpass wp7, depending how well the release goes it could be a very short time.
And for the apps I was not speaking as a developer but as a consumer being told your not getting most of the new shiny cool apps is a kick to the nuts, and some of the phones are very new like the L900 which is what 2-3 months old now.
Great to hear IE10 is good, been waiting years for a IE that didn't suck, not to use but just to make my life as a web dev easier, but it will take a while to get rid of all the people on IE7/8/9.
Also I would expect the WP8 platform to atleast allow people to upgrade for 24months as this is the typical contract time.
Finally I really want WP8 to really take of, and get back to the great days of the huge XDA support, it could make for a really good 3rd option.
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Very much beg to differ there, my dad got a Nokia Lumia 610 a few days ago and I was very surprised at how well it run considering the hardware, I've used lots of cheap android phones in my time and the Lumia 610 was miles ahead of any of them even some mid tier android phones.
Sim free pre order for 920 yellow and black £469
http://www.digital-phone.co.uk/product/nokia-lumia-920-yellow.aspx
http://www.digital-phone.co.uk/product/nokia-lumia-920-yellow.aspx
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£469 for a yellow 920 is very tempting and that camera looks amazing in low light conditions.
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Any ideas how much the wireless charging dock will cost?