** The Official Nvidia GeForce 'Pascal' Thread - for general gossip and discussions **

[Tommy_Here]

You can't possibly think that 1070 will match 980ti. There is no way NVidia would do that. Maybe it will match 980. But thats all you can get.

I'm pretty sure they would do that, a sub £300 card offering 980 Ti performance whilst running cooler, and using less juice will definitely be attractive to a lot of people happened with the 970 came out practically half the price the 780 Ti was selling for just a few weeks before release and offered virtually the same performance give or take....
1070 will match Ti I don't see why people seem to think the 980 Ti is still going to be king when pascal launches, the 980 Ti has been a great card yes no doubt and still will for a few years to come, but it is time for it to step down and let 1080 take the performance crown

 

[Huggie86]

The 1080 better be 20-25% Faster than a 980ti if not then Nvidia has messed up big time.

 

[Combat Fighter]

The 1080 better be 20-25% Faster than a 980ti if not then Nvidia has messed up big time.

So how much faster will the 1080Ti be then?

 

[Purgatory]

You can express disagreement without the low effort condescending response here man.

Personally, I agree with him. Anything less would be disappointing, frankly. We're still looking at a 300mm+ die on a successive node shrink(after skipping 20nm) that's been a long time coming. If they can get a 970 to basically match a Titan/780Ti on the same process, why couldn't they do it now? And that was with a £270 pricetag.

We will all see soon enough . Also who said there will be a Ti version this generation of the 80's series ? No one knows if there will be a Ti, look at the 680 never was a TI, it only started on the high end full fat chips with 780Ti and 980Ti, also remember these were full fat chips, not like the 680 which was a mid range chip sold as high end as they are doing now with Pascal... So there is a good chance no Ti version too, until GP100 versions come out.

They are not going to wipe out the value of 2 very well selling cards the 980 and 980ti by making a 1070 same speed as a 980ti. Then some saying the 1070 will sell for £250-£300 and faster than a 980Ti... Makes no sense , so you are saying a 980 which sells at moment about £400 will sell then for £200 and the 980ti for £300 ?

They are going to do an Intel this time minor bumps to all the range and keep the prices about the same and then when they bring out the big guns the GP100 versions and maybe expect to see Broadwell-E 10 core style pricing or they will wait till end of next year for it to sell/release at a more normal price.


If the 1070 is the same speed as a 980ti then expect it to cost a little less than a 980ti but it will not be a £250-300 card. This is what I have been trying to say, also there are clear signs coming off from Nvidia that Pascal this generation is not what the customers are expecting so keeping very hush hush and not even showing real world demos at any events.

We all don't know what's going to happen, the computer enthusiast in me is wishing for huge improvements but the realist in me is saying it will not happen this generation and we have seen it with Intel recently too and AMD has been lacking for a good reason too.. It's becoming very expensive to make huge improvements that we use to see before.


Also the mid range chips I never buy anyways, I always wait for the Full Fat versions of a generation, so this really does not bother me which way it goes. I would like to see huge improvements as that will mean the Full Fat version is going to be fantastic. It all depends on how much of a crunch Nvidia wants to put on AMD again, they tried it with the 970 and 980 with the pricing of them and I don't think it really worked out as they thought it would, AMD still sold well too.

 

[melmac]

Not sure why people keep thinking this - its more common for the next generation x70 type card to match or beat the previous generation high end card than it is for it to be slower.

Well, I said this to you before that jump is getting smaller each time.

But, in my opinion there are other reasons why the performance jump won't be that big this time around, the main one been power consumption.

970 is the current mid range, the 980ti is as powerful as 2 970's in SLI. Will the 1070 be double the performance of the 970? While still reducing power consumption?

I still think the die shrink is going to be about power savings more than performance.

My predictions are that the 1070 will be faster than the 980, the 1080 will be a little faster than the 980ti. And the 1080Ti will be nearly twice as fast as the 1070.

A bit disappointing? Maybe, But I am thinking that these new cards will have two very appealing qualities that will make them worthwhile upgrades.

1. Power consumption. I am betting on amazing performance/watt.

2. Video Memory. 1070 and 1080 will have 8GB and the 1080Ti will have 16GB.

3. Highly overclockable.

Depending on price of course, but, I could see people that have 970's at the moment or older generation cards been very tempted by a 1070 with 8GB of ram that can overclock to 980Ti levels of performance.

 

[shamus21]

Won't happen unless you call 30fps playable

OR

You want play on medium settings which is worse than 1440p ultra.

OR

you play dots LoL and rocket league. Which can be done now on a single 980

(I have both)

May be next year smogsy Big pascal will come close.

 

[shamus21]

Well, I said this to you before that jump is getting smaller each time.

But, in my opinion there are other reasons why the performance jump won't be that big this time around, the main one been power consumption.

970 is the current mid range, the 980ti is as powerful as 2 970's in SLI. Will the 1070 be double the performance of the 970? While still reducing power consumption?

I still think the die shrink is going to be about power savings more than performance.

My predictions are that the 1070 will be faster than the 980, the 1080 will be a little faster than the 980ti. And the 1080Ti will be nearly twice as fast as the 1070.

A bit disappointing? Maybe, But I am thinking that these new cards will have two very appealing qualities that will make them worthwhile upgrades.

1. Power consumption. I am betting on amazing performance/watt.

2. Video Memory. 1070 and 1080 will have 8GB and the 1080Ti will have 16GB.

3. Highly overclockable.

Depending on price of course, but, I could see people that have 970's at the moment or older generation cards been very tempted by a 1070 with 8GB of ram that can overclock to 980Ti levels of performance.

With Nvidia still using a the older GDDR5 and a 256bit bus, performance increases are going to be limited.

 

[nashathedog]

Will the 1070 be double the performance of the 970? While still reducing power consumption?

Unlikely

I still think the die shrink is going to be about power savings more than performance.

This first gen will probably focus on that improvement more while still giving a decent performance boost that compares to say a 680 to 780 jump possibly?

My predictions are that the 1070 will be faster than the 980, the 1080 will be a little faster than the 980ti. And the 1080Ti will be nearly twice as fast as the 1070.

I think any Ti will be delayed as it was this time to allow for a Titan type to sit well ahead with a pricetag fit for a king (or a Kaapstad)

A bit disappointing?

Not really.

2. Video Memory. 1070 and 1080 will have 8GB and the 1080Ti will have 16GB.

Or maybe a 12 gb ti and 16 gb Titan

Depending on price of course, but, I could see people that have 970's at the moment or older generation cards been very tempted by a 1070 with 8GB of ram that can overclock to 980Ti levels of performance.

I'm currently on a Fury and I plan on waiting as long as possible and then I hope to get a card with double figure ram that will run a 3440x1440 fairly comfortably, I hope doing that and also moving from my 4790k to an 8 or more core Zen or Intel a year after that that will allow me to then sit back with a rig that will last 4 or 5 years.

 

[andybird123]

stuff

stock for stock a 980ti is not a clean double faster than a 970 - 970's in SLI are not always 100% faster than a single 970... its much easier to look at 970 vs 980ti benches and say "are they double" than compare an SLI setup to a single faster card

they both overclock pretty well and a well overclocked 980ti is nearly double the performance of a single 970, but that is ignoring that a 970 will also overclock

its more like 50-60% faster than a 970...

now the new chip is 330mm2 vs 400mm2 for the 970 and 600mm2 for the 980ti... with double the transistors per mm2 you would expect it to be slightly faster than a 980ti and close to double the performance of a 970

rumours point to it also being able to attain very high clock speeds, but at this point this is just a rumour

 

[Rroff]

rumours point to it also being able to attain very high clock speeds, but at this point this is just a rumour

Its not just rumour - the potential performance/efficiency increases from 16nm FF+ over 28nm are massive - while it won't be quite as much for an nVidia GPU at the same performance level gains over 60% in power efficiency have been achieved while in balanced situations 2.5x performance/watt is possible which is something like 20-30% increase in clock speed with 40-50% power savings or something (not quite sure exact numbers) while no one has really pushed max clocks at the same power level clock speed increases of 30-40% are possible at the very least.

EDIT: Best I can find for any kind of rough guide for performance rather than power efficiency (not sure if this is a like for like as above - the performance could be coming from iterative increases in transistor counts):

At the VNOM supply voltage (0.85V), UltraScale devices deliver 60% more performance
and 20% lower power than 28nm solutions, resulting in a 2X improvement in performance per watt.
For applications requiring the maximum power efficiency, the VLOW supply voltage (0.72V) delivers
more than a speed grade performance improvement with up to 50% power savings relative to
28nm devices, for an impressive 2.4X improvement in performance per watt.

 

[Harlequin]

16nm (and glofo 14nm) is a misnomer - its based on 20nm planar.

40nm gtx 480 wasn't exactly power friendly was it

 

[layte]

16nm (and glofo 14nm) is a misnomer - its based on 20nm planar.

40nm gtx 480 wasn't exactly power friendly was it

Nope (I have a picture somewhere of my SLI 480 setup pulling 1150w from the wall), but sufficiently cooled they overclocked like a beast. I got 35% overclock on mine (701Mhz to just shy of 950). Probably would have gone higher if I could have got a handle on the power requirements!

 

[KillBoY_UK]

stock for stock a 980ti is not a clean double faster than a 970 - 970's in SLI are not always 100% faster than a single 970... its much easier to look at 970 vs 980ti benches and say "are they double" than compare an SLI setup to a single faster card

they both overclock pretty well and a well overclocked 980ti is nearly double the performance of a single 970, but that is ignoring that a 970 will also overclock

its more like 50-60% faster than a 970...

now the new chip is 330mm2 vs 400mm2 for the 970 and 600mm2 for the 980ti... with double the transistors per mm2 you would expect it to be slightly faster than a 980ti and close to double the performance of a 970

rumours point to it also being able to attain very high clock speeds, but at this point this is just a rumour

A single overclocked 980ti was very close to beating my WF3 780 SLI setup which I though was amazing give the die sizes are similar on the same process node

 

[Harlequin]

Nope (I have a picture somewhere of my SLI 480 setup pulling 1150w from the wall), but sufficiently cooled they overclocked like a beast. I got 35% overclock on mine (701Mhz to just shy of 950). Probably would have gone higher if I could have got a handle on the power requirements!

which reminds me - my GTX 480 is sadly gathering dust (its dead jim!)

 

[Rroff]

Nope (I have a picture somewhere of my SLI 480 setup pulling 1150w from the wall), but sufficiently cooled they overclocked like a beast. I got 35% overclock on mine (701Mhz to just shy of 950). Probably would have gone higher if I could have got a handle on the power requirements!

My 470s ran pretty warm in SLI (though nothing too crazy) and used a fair bit of power (had a 700watt PSU which actually tested like a 800watt and it was given a good work out in SLI) but at the end I had them running at 900MHz on stock cooling (albeit 100% fan speed which made a lot of noise) which was just shy of a 50% overclock and they ran most of their life at between 800 and 840MHz depending on how brave I was feeling. nVidia significantly underclocked those things out the box but with 3rd party cooling they'd have happily sat at 900MHz for years without making too much noise aslong as you could get rid of the heat.

TBH I'd probably still be using them today if they had more VRAM and/or SLI support hadn't fallen off a bit compared to where it was when Fermi was at its peak. (EDIT: Though some recent games don't run well on Fermi at all)

 

[Harlequin]

^^ that's drivers I'm sure pretty much sure that Nv have quietly stopped properly supporting 4xx and 5xx for gaming.

compute is still very very good - a 480 at times is better than a titanx thanks to its mountain of FP64

 

[Jono8]

Well, I said this to you before that jump is getting smaller each time.

But, in my opinion there are other reasons why the performance jump won't be that big this time around, the main one been power consumption.

970 is the current mid range, the 980ti is as powerful as 2 970's in SLI. Will the 1070 be double the performance of the 970? While still reducing power consumption?

I still think the die shrink is going to be about power savings more than performance.

My predictions are that the 1070 will be faster than the 980, the 1080 will be a little faster than the 980ti. And the 1080Ti will be nearly twice as fast as the 1070.

A bit disappointing? Maybe, But I am thinking that these new cards will have two very appealing qualities that will make them worthwhile upgrades.

1. Power consumption. I am betting on amazing performance/watt.

2. Video Memory. 1070 and 1080 will have 8GB and the 1080Ti will have 16GB.

3. Highly overclockable.

Depending on price of course, but, I could see people that have 970's at the moment or older generation cards been very tempted by a 1070 with 8GB of ram that can overclock to 980Ti levels of performance.

A 980 ti is around 50% faster than a 970, not 100%

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1496?vs=1595

 

[tyler_jrb]

A 980 ti is around 50% faster than a 970, not 100%

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/1496?vs=1595

A clock for clock comparison would be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4RyNNlKbJw

Not far off each other in SLI though.

 

[Combat Fighter]

Will be interesting if this new pascal 'midrange' card will be marketed as high end like they did with the 980?

I won't be getting stung on that again though. Once bitten twice shy.

FULL FAT pascal or nothing for me!

 

[straxusii]

Will be interesting if this new pascal 'midrange' card will be marketed as high end like they did with the 980?

It's a stone cold certainty, and the 680