and what is wrong with that?
Poll: The Official OcUK EU Referendum Exit poll (and results discussion thread)
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and what is wrong with that?
Soldato
I'm not and I'm a remainer as well as many other rational remainers who I know that aren't breaking the internet. We just move on and focus where to go next in a productive and functional manor
Soldato
Do you not know how a democracy works?
Permabanned
Yey, it was getting lonely over here. May as well work together
Indeed good sir. Let's go forward positively.
You cease to live in a democracy when you remove the right to vote from a demographic for whatever reason.
Also, where would it end? I work for the NHS. Sometimes, a lot of money can be spent keeping a 95 year old alive for a few weeks. Surely that money would be better spent on children who have their whole lives ahead of them?
Soldato
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I'm a bit shaken tonight - my best friend of over 17 years, today said over the phone that if I voted remain (which I did) he wouldn't come over ever again. No sarcasm, I could sense the hatred in his voice.
Luckily he edoesn' know who I voted for but find his attitude senseless as he isn't even registered to vote yet harbours such hostility it's scary.
On a slightly more cheerful note - he thought China was in the EU.
He will think many things in future, introduce him to scorza and itchy, just for the lulz.
Soldato
Once we get rid of the unelected house of lords and force proportional rep.
How utterly naive can people be
I'm not and I'm a remainer as well as many other rational remainers who I know that aren't breaking the internet. We just move on and focus where to go next in a productive and functional manor
I agree that some have taken it well.
Soldato
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Soldato
Yes, but it took hundreds of years for the countries of the united kingdom to get to the point they are now in terms of unification.
The problem with the EU project is that it is trying to do too much far too soon. And that is a very bad thing when the countries have very different cultures.
It is the same problem as uncontrolled immigration, the government trys to preach social cohesion and unity, but all that happens is communal division.
The Euro is also the worst thing that can happen in the case of too much integration too soon. And the results of it are being shown in many southern European countries.
Soldato
Indeed, others haven't but I stay hopeful that the minority are spoiling it for the majority and most of us are being rational
Soldato
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If you live and die by social media, you'll never have a quiet moment, tbf.
Soldato
Indeed, Proportional representation is a must for any democracy. And the house of lords needs scrapping or its members need to be voted in.
From the guardians comments section:
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.
Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.
With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.
How?
Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.
And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.
The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.
The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?
Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?
Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.
If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.
The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.
When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.
All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
Soldato
Absolutely, that way we can have more of an influence in the decisions that affect us.
Absolutely bang on.
Can someone give me some reassurance that this won't have a cascading effect on other EU members?
Will Germany or France, for example, ever hold a referendum like this? The people of these countries have been bombarded with a lot of things which could cause this type of mentality to manifest itself!!! Just like the UK has been bombarded with so much crap about how bad the EU is like mass immigration stuff which is obviously and knowingly going to anger a lot of people!!!
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Wow. So that makes Yorkshire and Cornwall thus far asking to cover the pitfall from any EU loss. Has anywhere else?
Let's be honest. If there's any money left, it's staying in London. The north and Wales will suffer.
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