*** The Official Rugby World Cup 2015 Thread ***
- Thread starter Russinating
- Start date
While I'm disappointed about the result it's the scoreline that really hurts, complete disintegration and once again poor discipline.
What I am mad about though is the game against Wales, there was no plausible reason to lose that. Once again very poor discipline and lack of concentration.
I expected a knockout at QF but not to clear a group stage as a home nation takes some effort.
What I am mad about though is the game against Wales, there was no plausible reason to lose that. Once again very poor discipline and lack of concentration.
I expected a knockout at QF but not to clear a group stage as a home nation takes some effort.
Man of Honour
I can't speak for Scotland, but as an English person who was raised in Wales, there are a number of historical factors which contribute to the tension between the two countries. The Welsh see themselves as continually oppressed and overwhelmed by English influence (historically) - things like efforts to extinguish Welsh language (to the point where children at school were physically punished for speaking it) to the whole coal mining era and particularly with regards to Thatcher at the end of it. I'm not saying I agree with the Welsh view at all times but there is certainly a history of England perceiving itself as the superior nation and trying to keep the Welsh under foot - at least if you view it from a Welsh perspective.
Sport is just one outlet for that frustration I think. Personally I like to see any home nation do well, but I wouldn't enjoy seeing England succeed at Wales' expense.
Soldato
Some of it will be to do with the press/commentators. Its fine to support your nation but a lot of English supporters/press/pundits go way beyond that and practically state they have won before a ball is played... Think Football and how often 1966 is brought up in the World Cup...
Soldato
Well, this is awkward.
I knew you pipe up here. Always there to gloat? Hows the Ashes by the way?
Soldato
I don't know why this gets thrown out there all the time? There is not an ounce of talent in the England team.
They are average at best and are placed exactly where they should be.
The press just overate us as usual and then people are shocked when we get thumped and dumped out.
I predicted we would lose to Wales and Australia to finish third in the group at the start of the tournament.
Man of Honour
As Lopéz says there are (rightly or wrongly) historical reasons why Ireland/Scotland/Wales will tend to support anyone but England. Sometimes it's less questionably motivated because in most matches they're supporting the underdog by not supporting England, othertimes it is just a hatred of England but mostly I'd suggest intended as somewhat joking banter but there is often an undercurrent which goes back to those historical reasons.
I'd also point out that the commentators and media don't always help the situation when they focus so heavily on the exploits of England to the almost exclusion of every other home nation (understandable though that may be given their target market is dominated by the number of English people). They also appear to have a habit of building up any England team who shows a little bit of promise into being world beaters and that sort of misguided arrogance doesn't tend to sit well, however it does mean a lot of other people will (for whatever reason) enjoy taking the Michael when the hubris is shown up to be so unwarranted. There's the half joking observation that Andy Murray is British right up to the point when he loses and then it's the "dour Scot fails again..." - Mr Murray is an example that polarises opinion anyway but it is something that appears to happen with some regularity when an athlete from a nation other than England does well.
Personally I'd say I'm now at a stage where England winning or losing are treated with something close to equanimity. It does depend slightly on the event for me as for (say) athletics I'll tend to support all the home nations whether competing as a team or as the constituent nations but where there isn't a team regularly comprised of the constituent nations playing for a GB team in that event I tend not to be all that bothered by the results of the other home nations. It's nothing specific against England, I don't support Wales, Ireland or Northern Ireland either in most team sports - watching Scotland shoot themselves in the foot on a regular basis is painful enough, I don't need to choose other teams to do that as well.
I can't see a situation where I'd ever support England in a match against Scotland but for most sporting events I'll check the results or watch the match and I won't support the other team just because it's not England. I might however support the other team as underdogs on occasion because I want to see a more even match but for something like last night's match I was essentially neutral on the result, maybe even leaning slightly towards thinking an England win would be better in terms of keeping the tournament atmosphere going and avoiding the bitter recriminations and blame game that will take up the next few weeks/months for a little bit longer. However now it has started the media (who'll believe they're speaking for the nation) will go on like this until the next bit of progress is made and then the cycle can start again with building them up just to knock them down.
Oh dear. Do you see me saying it's fair that England got to play a pool game and the third placed playoff at Twickenham? You obviously can't see over that chip on your shoulder.
I couldn't give a damn if the Millenium Stadium was used, it's doing you a favour after all.
Wales should not have been allowed to play at Millenium Stadium.
Pathetic.And ....... in my last late night post ......YOU LOST ..............YOUR OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
I was thinking about this - why is it such a big thing, (I mean legendary come on??), that the host has gone out at the group stages. Look at the state of World Rugby. It's only been getting better in recent years, and most of the minnow teams that were usually a reserve team 50+ point walk over no longer are. And group A was a hard group to qualify from! The only group with three of the more established professional era teams in it, due to Wales being so bad when seedings where done. Yes England are the first host to lose in the group stages. Yes they've also had the hardest job.I rather enjoyed watching the English getting humiliated this evening, out of their own tournament before the knock out stages, legendary.
Still the good news for English fans is that England should finish 3rd and automatically qualify for the WC in 2019
Because people are pathetic, especially so when it comes to sports.
Historical reasons are a convenient excuse if you ask me. It's tribal, etavistic behaviour that you'd think people would have grown out of by now.
Soldato
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I think I shall be supporting the All Blacks now. I watch a lot of Super 15 rugby and the Blues and Reds are my preferred sides not that either has many players in the New Zealand or Australian squads this year. But I am familiar with the players which makes a big difference to enjoying the game.
As to the England team, hmmm. I'm inclined to leave Lancaster in charge and change Farrell and Rowntree. Neither can say their parts of the game have gone well in the last 18 months, England's pack has lost it's mojo. The back line has never had any guile, things have improved with Ford but the balance hasn't been right for a long time.
As to the England team, hmmm. I'm inclined to leave Lancaster in charge and change Farrell and Rowntree. Neither can say their parts of the game have gone well in the last 18 months, England's pack has lost it's mojo. The back line has never had any guile, things have improved with Ford but the balance hasn't been right for a long time.
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Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
I don't think you really have a leg to stand on, considering England played both their big games at Twickenham
From a stadium perspective, I would have thought they'd use some other larger stadiums such as Old Trafford or the Etihad but you have to think whoever was running the scheduling for the World Cup considered the home advantage effect and the use of the Millennium Stadium.
Man of Honour
Thanks for the explanation. I still think it is a daft behaviour when we want to keep some sort of unity. A bit of friendly rivalry is great and necessary but the clear disdain for one another I find strange and a shame.
For what it's worth I'm one of these people that supports the home nations except when France or Cyprus are involved and since the latter only really ever represent Wimbledon (out of the sports I'm interested in). That said if it is England vs a non home nation my support is for England especially vs the USA!
I can totally understand loyalty and pride for your nation. It that. I just think it is a shame your overlook a neighbour and a group that are part of your overall society just to make a point which is no longer needed.
In the words of princess Eliza "let it go". Yes the past is important but we live in the present.
If our nation and by that I mean Great Britain were being slighted or attacked or whatever I'd hope that we would stand together.
For what it's worth I'm one of these people that supports the home nations except when France or Cyprus are involved and since the latter only really ever represent Wimbledon (out of the sports I'm interested in). That said if it is England vs a non home nation my support is for England especially vs the USA!
I can totally understand loyalty and pride for your nation. It that. I just think it is a shame your overlook a neighbour and a group that are part of your overall society just to make a point which is no longer needed.
In the words of princess Eliza "let it go". Yes the past is important but we live in the present.
If our nation and by that I mean Great Britain were being slighted or attacked or whatever I'd hope that we would stand together.
Soldato
As a Welsh man there has always been friendly rivalry between us. Mostly taken in good fun but some do take it very seriously.
It was great to see England get stuffed! Fantastic feeling!
Even with the 6 nations, the most important thing is Wales to beat England!! lol
It was great to see England get stuffed! Fantastic feeling!
Even with the 6 nations, the most important thing is Wales to beat England!! lol
Soldato
The reason why there is this split between Scotland/Wales/Ireland and England is mainly due to the perceived arrogance of the English when it comes to sport. I say perceived because all the nations fall foul of this. However, as England has 56 million residents compared to the <4 million of Wales and <6 million of Scotland (I always forget Ireland) then there are more arrogant people (although the percentages are likely to be the same).
The media compound this problem, putting England favourites in most sports (Rugby and Football) and having rose tinted(?) glasses. Last world cup they fundamentally wrote off Wales and put England in the final - despite how well Wales were playing... Who got the furthest of the home nations? Wales... Now whilst the media is at fault, think of the numbers I gave before... Of course they are going to bang on about England... England has the largest population within the UK/GB (can't remember which includes Ireland). (Edit - just to add to this... a personal opinion if you will... it is annoying when we have three games in one day and the majority of talk between pundits focusses on the final game [being England vs. Aus/Wal] and not the game at hand... this is a world cup and each nation should be given equal[?] representation, or at least more than they have been given - the match preview between the final game is always longer 45 min vs 30 min so there is extra time there to get all the chat in!)
All in all, it comes down to perceived arrogance. England expect to win - and quiet rightly so... with one of the biggest budgets available to any national coach, and one of the largest player pools of professional players... (Edit - going to the football side of things... think of all the money in the Premier league, but all they do is train up the foreign players and they go play for their international team - more needs to be done to solve this but alas I digress)
I'm not sure if I've made my point or not... But alas, I would have loved to have met England in the RWC final (now that would have been electric!!!!), but alas it is not to be (not only because of England, but because Ireland will be in the final!)
The media compound this problem, putting England favourites in most sports (Rugby and Football) and having rose tinted(?) glasses. Last world cup they fundamentally wrote off Wales and put England in the final - despite how well Wales were playing... Who got the furthest of the home nations? Wales... Now whilst the media is at fault, think of the numbers I gave before... Of course they are going to bang on about England... England has the largest population within the UK/GB (can't remember which includes Ireland). (Edit - just to add to this... a personal opinion if you will... it is annoying when we have three games in one day and the majority of talk between pundits focusses on the final game [being England vs. Aus/Wal] and not the game at hand... this is a world cup and each nation should be given equal[?] representation, or at least more than they have been given - the match preview between the final game is always longer 45 min vs 30 min so there is extra time there to get all the chat in!)
All in all, it comes down to perceived arrogance. England expect to win - and quiet rightly so... with one of the biggest budgets available to any national coach, and one of the largest player pools of professional players... (Edit - going to the football side of things... think of all the money in the Premier league, but all they do is train up the foreign players and they go play for their international team - more needs to be done to solve this but alas I digress)
I'm not sure if I've made my point or not... But alas, I would have loved to have met England in the RWC final (now that would have been electric!!!!), but alas it is not to be (not only because of England, but because Ireland will be in the final!)
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Man of Honour
You all need to support France
Soldato