Just a note, The Croteam guys did mention that this is an early implementation that they are working on.
that's pretty decent perf for a proof of concept
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***The Official Vulkan API Thread***
- Thread starter shankly1985
- Start date
that's pretty decent perf for a proof of concept
Am not the only one
Multi threading is not enabled yet, Dev goes into it a bit more to explain
1)
Port. Make it work as fast as possible just by wrapping current engine design around Vulkan. Avoid all pitfalls and bottlenecks. This is what we did by now and released as patch for Talos.
2)
Use Vulkan for multi-threaded rendering. Our engine is designed really well for multi-threaded rendering, but we have only our wrapper for it - calls to graphics API (like Vulkan) are not multi-threaded. Yet.
That being said, this is the next step what we'll do. And probably release that also as patch for Talos. I tried to do that with Direct3D 11 long time ago (support for its deffered contexts), but it was too much pain and too little or even no gain.That's just one of reasons why we decided to stick with our own approach for MT renderer for that long. :/
3)
Redesign engine for Vulkan. This is the biggest step and can be split in two:
3a)
Precache all rendering states (which mostly mean materials in game) up front. This will make rendering calls much simplier and faster. So, instead of deciding at rendering time what is needed for a material to be rendered via Vulkan, do this at loading time and then when material needs to be rendered just give it to Vulkan, via one or two simple function calls.
3b)
Precache all geometry, material, textures, everything that is needed for rendering an object up front. This basically creates so called command buffer ready for Vulkan, and nothing extra needs to be set or created at render time.
3rd part of port is, obviously, the most complex one, and it'll take time to change engine design for it, step-by-step.
Source
Well that explains a lot, Vulkan support is just wrapped onto the current engine. At least we can see that some big performacne improving things still need to be done. 
Although the peanut gallery is already shouting about vulkan being bad as a whole... all in reference to this games 'Early' support of vulkan.
Although the peanut gallery is already shouting about vulkan being bad as a whole... all in reference to this games 'Early' support of vulkan.
Ahhh cheers for that Pete and yer, explains a lot. I have done a side by side comparison video for those that are interested on my site and Youtube. I am not disappointed with Vulkan even though it gets beaten by DX11 and great to see it being used I say 
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And another thread that turned into is Vulkan/DX12 just Mantle with a name change or the old did Mantle succeed/fail...
Surely everyone's missing the point, that Vulkan is out. Not on time, but it's out (does sound like AMD tech
, kidding!)
All very well comparing it to DX11, but if long term it's not an improvement on that then I think we'll all be disappointed, I mean how old is DX11 now? That'd be like comparing AMD's new Zen CPU to a Pentium 4 and getting excited because it edged it in multithreading benchmarks.
Surely what we really want is a game (with a built in benchmark) that uses both Vulkan and DX12!
Hopefully the industry will pick whichever ones performs best and use that one (if it uses the other one too then it's a bonus).
Personally I don't care about Linux gaming for the time being as I've a vast number of games that don't run in Linux. When more of the games I like running in linux than don't run in linux it might start to interest me.
Much like DX12 I think it'll be a while before we really see Vulkan used to its fullest. By which time we'll probably have new GPUs to argue about and we'll have stopped caring about APIs because that Hungarian website showed my preference to be better and all sites that disagree have been bought off, again.
Personally with Vulkan and DX12, just like I was with DX11 and OpenGL, I won't be buying a game just because it includes an API, I'll buy it because I want it. If that means I buy nothing but Vulkan games, fine. If I end up with just DX12 games, spiffy. If I end up with Dx11 games, then I'll live with it and console myself by having fun with games I enjoy.
Surely everyone's missing the point, that Vulkan is out. Not on time, but it's out (does sound like AMD tech
, kidding!)All very well comparing it to DX11, but if long term it's not an improvement on that then I think we'll all be disappointed, I mean how old is DX11 now? That'd be like comparing AMD's new Zen CPU to a Pentium 4 and getting excited because it edged it in multithreading benchmarks.
Surely what we really want is a game (with a built in benchmark) that uses both Vulkan and DX12!
Hopefully the industry will pick whichever ones performs best and use that one (if it uses the other one too then it's a bonus).
Personally I don't care about Linux gaming for the time being as I've a vast number of games that don't run in Linux. When more of the games I like running in linux than don't run in linux it might start to interest me.
Much like DX12 I think it'll be a while before we really see Vulkan used to its fullest. By which time we'll probably have new GPUs to argue about and we'll have stopped caring about APIs because that Hungarian website showed my preference to be better and all sites that disagree have been bought off, again.
Personally with Vulkan and DX12, just like I was with DX11 and OpenGL, I won't be buying a game just because it includes an API, I'll buy it because I want it. If that means I buy nothing but Vulkan games, fine. If I end up with just DX12 games, spiffy. If I end up with Dx11 games, then I'll live with it and console myself by having fun with games I enjoy.
Vulcan is far more than just DX12/Mantle renamed and although it might not matter as much in the PC market in other markets some of the changes are major. DX and old versions of OpenGL have a strong bias towards a single type of GPU architecture putting any other GPU architectures at a disadvantage. While Vulcan treats all types of GPU architecture fairly without putting any at disadvantage. This doesn't really effect AMD or NVidia but for all the other GPU brands its a massive change.And another thread that turned into is Vulkan/DX12 just Mantle with a name change or the old did Mantle succeed/fail...
Surely everyone's missing the point, that Vulkan is out. Not on time, but it's out (does sound like AMD tech
I am not convinced that’s true as both IMG and ARM had a big impact on Vulkan. IMG have been far more successful at low level API then AMD with Mantle and IMG was heavily involved in Vulkan.
AMD are getting far too much credit for Vulkan as Vulkan is far more than just Mantle with a few changes.
The most common and largest majority of GPU architectures are not supported by Mantle as Mantle was very bias in that regard. Vulkan does support those GPU architectures so how can you say the majority of the hardware interaction side of Vulkan is based on Mantle? If that was the case the majority of GPU's wouldn't work well with Vulkan. Mantle was a starting point but a large amount of work didn't come from AMD and Vulkan is far more then Mantle 2.0
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Really want this to be well supported by games, it seems to make so much more sense than DX12 as I don't believe it has any major features missing compared to DX12 and yet covers far more platforms, if Apple weren't so stuck up it would've covered them all
Hopefully Valve will push it as well, if DX12 becomes the de-facto standard like previous DX vs OGL comparisons then SteamOS will never succeed.
Tempted to buy Talos Principle now, partially just to support a dev willing to support it (and Linux/SteamOS for that matter)
Hopefully Valve will push it as well, if DX12 becomes the de-facto standard like previous DX vs OGL comparisons then SteamOS will never succeed.
Tempted to buy Talos Principle now, partially just to support a dev willing to support it (and Linux/SteamOS for that matter)
Of course there were changes and improvements, such as the addition of Tile based rendering modes. Plus as it was with AMD when creating mantle, the hardware just has to support a base set of features to work with the API. No different to DX11 support. The hardware can implement those features in any way it likes as long as it supports them.
And the reason why many of AMD's older GPU's did not support MAntle and still don't support DX12 or Vulkan is becasue they contain too much fixed function hardware. No different to Nvidia GPU's before Fermi. it just happened that Nvidia released a more compute based GPU long before AMD did.
The point I was trying to get across was Mantle was a very limited bias API. It was a starting point but what Vulkan ended up as is massively different from what Mental was.
The majority of Vulkan is not Mantle or due to AMD.
Vulkan exists thanks to AMD saying anything else is ignorance.
Obviously both Dx12 and Vulkan APi will be different as they need to adapt it to lesser older hardware from other brands.
Mantle is still here with LiquidVR.
Really want this to be well supported by games, it seems to make so much more sense than DX12 as I don't believe it has any major features missing compared to DX12 and yet covers far more platforms, if Apple weren't so stuck up it would've covered them all
Hopefully Valve will push it as well, if DX12 becomes the de-facto standard like previous DX vs OGL comparisons then SteamOS will never succeed.
Tempted to buy Talos Principle now, partially just to support a dev willing to support it (and Linux/SteamOS for that matter)
That was the reason I bought the Talos Principle and it is pretty good as it goes. If you like Portal, you will like this. I am all up for supporting small devs as well.
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So The Talos Principle beta that's on Steam now uses Vulkan.....
I've had it a while but haven't tried it since having a quick go with the demo to decide whether to get the full game. I'll have to try it out and see what performance is like for me..
Ohh..
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That’s wrong Vulkan exists thanks to the Khronos Group made up key players like AMD, IMG, Qual, ARM and others. Without AMD Vulkan would still exist as a low level API.
Its ignorance to say the majority of Vulkan exists thanks to AMD. The other company’s involved had far more experience and success with low level API’s and did a massive amount of work to turn Vulkan into a none bias API that works well.
IMG for example have been doing low level API’s for over 20 years rolled out across 100’s of millions of devices with 100’s of games. They took all that experience and code to help turn Vulkan into a good API.
My problem isn’t with AMD getting credit as they deserve credit for what they did; my problem is with the people acting like the majority of credit belongs to AMD and that the majority of the work & majority of Vulkan is Mantle which is wrong.
Vulkan is the result of 18 months of intense collaboration between major players all wanting the same thing. Mantle was just a starting point. The other company's turned it into a rubbish bias API into a great API.
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Vulkan existed before AMD, saying anything else is retarded.
any API could have existed before Mantle in a project form, still doesnt mean it would have been released in the same state it was in if Mantle didnt exist, and it's just retarded to think they all agreed at the same time (microsoft, apple, khronos), to go lower level instead of their classic way (with DX12, iOS Metal, Vulkan), out of the blue for no reason, when you see what happened a year before with Mantle, and it's especialy retarded to deny the contribution of Mantle to Vulkan.
OpenGL Next as it was called, was going nowhere since 2005. it is sheer ignorance to say that AMD did not help greatly progress it with its contribution of mantle.
I doubt vulkan would have released in its current form without mantel as a basis.
I doubt vulkan would have released in its current form without mantel as a basis.
No one is saying AMD did not greatly contribute. What we are saying is it’s unfair in saying AMD did the majority of the work and that the majority of Vulkan is Mantle. What about the major contributions from the other GPU players?
Yes its true vulkan would not have been released in its current form without mantel as a basis. But the same goes for the major contributions the other GPU players did. Take any one of the major players out like ARM or IMG and Vulkan would have been very different.
Makes absolutely no difference how much mantle is left in Vulkan, and how much has been changed. What matters is that it significantly speeded the process to get us 2nd new generation api to be used. I bet a lot was changed , and had to be changed. AMD themselves would have changed things. You know this from your own personal experiences from life. Build a house, and after you've finished building it, you start thinking that you could have done few things differently. You learn, and next time you build something like that, you improve it, instead making same house again. This applies to API's same way.
I don't know why I'm writing this....
I don't know why I'm writing this....