The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

[GGizmo]

Do you completely disagree with all of OCUK forum's rules then?

As people told me when I was complaining about social media a year ago "its a private company". Any site can do what it wants to do, as long as its not advocating for law breaking etc.

The length of bans as been a conversation between moderators, owners, and sysops since multi-user platforms became popular. It's not a new issue.

I've been a moderator/owner of many IRC channels for nearly 30 years. Anyone who is familiar with IRC knows there are a lot of times people get banned from channels. But also there is a limit on the amount of bans you can hold in the system. So unless you create a special bot to hold more bans the list can fill up quickly.

In my opinion it is good site regulation to not have thousands of names on a permanent ban list.

As an aside note, it would be interesting to know how GDPR (or whatever the post Brexit version of that is called) compliance comes in with permanent ban lists?

 

[dowie]

Space X Tom Muller, ya know, the man who actually made and engineered the engines, Left after Musk came on.

Eh? Musk founded the company and Tom was his first hire/partner.

Zip2, founded and went defunct my 1999. Nuralink Max Hodax, left because Musk was a muppet. The boring company, the one that was to solve traffic issues with tunnels?...Not something to boast about with its very public embarrassing failures.
Elephant in the room of course is Tesla, tried to get everyone to believe he was a founder, faking it. Only to botch the cars and build junk.

What does "Max Hodax, left because Musk was a muppet" have to do with anything here? You made a BS claim here:

Cause..ya know..he hasnt..he bought into companies already well developed and established, he didnt create any of them.

I then point out 5 different companies he did in fact create and you're then replying with something about how some person left one of them? What relevance does that have to anything, it seems you're repeating BS and then when called out on it you're just flinging more **** at the wall in the hope some of it sticks.

I don't see how Tesla is an elephant in the room, out of the 6 companies he's been involved in building that's the one he didn't start right at the begining? He's still considered a co-Founder and realistically he's the key person who made it what it is today.

 

[Rroff]

Imagine boycotting a product because the makers suggested men should call out sexual harassment.

Not many people boycotted Gillette because of a suggestion men should call out sexual harassment (though no doubt there were some) and in fact the ad was highly damaging towards that end. I'm concerned for people who can't see how wrong that ad was, can't see why people would call it out, and how wrong tarnishing with a broad brush is whatever side of the fence* that is, or would use the situation to try and get a raise out of people.


* Which in itself is a problem.

 

[cu3ed]

Eh? Musk founded the company and Tom was his first hire/partner.



What does "Max Hodax, left because Musk was a muppet" have to do with anything here? You made a BS claim here:



I then point out 5 different companies he did in fact create and you're then replying with something about how some person left one of them? What relevance does that have to anything, it seems you're repeating BS and then when called out on it you're just flinging more **** at the wall in the hope some of it sticks.

I don't see how Tesla is an elephant in the room, out of the 6 companies he's been involved in building that's the one he didn't start right at the begining? He's still considered a co-Founder and realistically he's the key person who made it what it is today.

Top was a registered company before Musk. Max Hodax was a registered company who made Nuralink. Space X is actually a trademark that Musk founded.
You have pointed out 5 companies that musk was involved in, but ijm not sure if any of them are actually making nay money without Government subsides.
Telsa CO founder?....how is that possible, he wasn't there when it was founded, or trademarked, or developed even, he bought in an tried to rewrite the history of the company, if you believe that or want to believe that, how are you in a position to question others? The Tesla one is the most well know Lie Fact about him.
You seem strangely angry about this.
Is it becuase his PR stunt to help children lives in danger backfired on him?..Or his hair transplant lol.

 

[Jono8]

As people told me when I was complaining about social media a year ago "its a private company". Any site can do what it wants to do, as long as its not advocating for law breaking etc.

The length of bans as been a conversation between moderators, owners, and sysops since multi-user platforms became popular. It's not a new issue.

I've been a moderator/owner of many IRC channels for nearly 30 years. Anyone who is familiar with IRC knows there are a lot of times people get banned from channels. But also there is a limit on the amount of bans you can hold in the system. So unless you create a special bot to hold more bans the list can fill up quickly.

In my opinion it is good site regulation to not have thousands of names on a permanent ban list.

As an aside note, it would be interesting to know how GDPR (or whatever the post Brexit version of that is called) compliance comes in with permanent ban lists?

That wasn't an answer.

Do you agree with OCUK's rules or not?

 

[Tony Edwards]

Not many people boycotted Gillette because of a suggestion men should call out sexual harassment (though no doubt there were some) and in fact the ad was highly damaging towards that end. I'm concerned for people who can't see how wrong that ad was, can't see why people would call it out, and how wrong tarnishing with a broad brush is whatever side of the fence* that is, or would use the situation to try and get a raise out of people.


* Which in itself is a problem.

The main reason people boycotted Gillette is because they were steered to it. Who the ***** gives a **** about a commercial that most people fast forward through?

 

[Ahleckz]

Not many people boycotted Gillette because of a suggestion men should call out sexual harassment (though no doubt there were some) and in fact the ad was highly damaging towards that end. I'm concerned for people who can't see how wrong that ad was, can't see why people would call it out, and how wrong tarnishing with a broad brush is whatever side of the fence* that is, or would use the situation to try and get a raise out of people.


* Which in itself is a problem.

How was it highly damaging towards that end?
Why was that ad wrong?
Why did people call it out?

We get it, you boycotted them. You felt insulted and upset by the ad. Why was that? How sensitive are you?!

 

[dlockers]

Space X Tom Muller, ya know, the man who actually made and engineered the engines, Left after Musk came on. Zip2, founded 1995 and went defunct my 1999. Nuralink Max Hodax, left because Musk was a muppet. The boring company, the one that was to solve traffic issues with tunnels?...Not something to boast about with its very public embarrassing failures.
Elephant in the room of course is Tesla, tried to get everyone to believe he was a founder, faking it. Only to botch the cars and build junk.
Oh any Paypal, Musks name isnt even on the founders list.

Almost like being born to a billionaire slave owning diamond miner is a differentiator to your success in life.

 

[Rroff]

The main reason people boycotted Gillette is because they were steered to it. Who the ***** gives a **** about a commercial that most people fast forward through?

Anyone not blocking ads would have to watch a chunk of it on YouTube, and some other sites, before videos - I was there from pretty much the start, long before there was any kind of public outcry or steering going on, lots of people took issue with it of their own volition and it was Gillette's response to that which resulted in the whole thing snowballing.

 

[cu3ed]

Almost like being born to a billionaire slave owning diamond miner is a differentiator to your success in life.

Oh yea he has money, funnily enough he does pay people below minimum US wages as well lol.
Seems iodd he had to borrow so much money from so many different sources to buy Twitter though, shame that he has to pay all the rising interest to the banks soon though.

 

[C Kent]

How was it highly damaging towards that end?
Why was that ad wrong?
Why did people call it out?

We get it, you boycotted them. You felt insulted and upset by the ad. Why was that? How sensitive are you?!

It was condescending, it was trite. They are a ******* company that makes shaving products, not the moral arbiters of masculinity - especially when the behavior they were 'highighting' is perpetrated by a minuscule amount of men. Again, reverse the genders..do you think an advert for shaving products should be calling out toxic behavior by women, or would you say it's in bad tatse and social commentary should stay out of adverts designed to sell a product?

End of the day, they misread the room thanks to some questionable decisions by the ad firm that greenlit the ad, it cost them money and they havent tried it again since.

 

[GGizmo]

That wasn't an answer.

Do you agree with OCUK's rules or not?

Of course.

My answer was in the first line of my reply.

 

[Rroff]

How was it highly damaging towards that end?
Why was that ad wrong?
Why did people call it out?

We get it, you boycotted them. You felt insulted and upset by the ad. Why was that? How sensitive are you?!

None of that should need explaining to you.

As above I'm concerned you'd find it good material to try and get a raise from - sexual harassment is a serious issue. As a team leader and supervisor at work I go to a lot of effort to ensure people feel safe and comfortable at work, that work isn't somewhere people might dread coming into every day because of the way other people might treat them, etc.

It was condescending, it was trite. They are a ******* company that makes shaving products, not the moral arbiters of masculinity - especially when the behavior they were 'highighting' is perpetrated by a minuscule amount of men. Again, reverse the genders..do you think an advert for shaving products should be calling out toxic behavior by women, or would you say it's in bad tatse and social commentary should stay out of adverts designed to sell a product?

That isn't the [big] problem with it - the problem was the ad accusing a certain group, specifying towards a certain white male demographic, of being naturally and fundamentally a certain way and could only do better by being educated, or stopped from their behaviours by another groups of people. It was very small minded, agenda lead rather than constructive towards tackling a very real problem.

Though it certainly would not have gone down well the other way around.

EDIT: It isn't just about a miniscule amount of people though and that is where one of the biggest issues is - there are a relatively small number of people where it is "guilty" behaviours but a larger number of people can innocently carry out unthought behaviours which can cause a problem - which is why careful raising of awareness is key.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

The main reason people boycotted Gillette is because they were steered to it. Who the ***** gives a **** about a commercial that most people fast forward through?

I am avoiding the (offtopic) Gillette advert as I don't think I have ever seen it.
If I am forced to see adverts on a platform I just ignore them, will switch to somethign else whilst they are on generally, or hover over the "skip to main content" button if its one that you can skip before the advert finishes
Can you link it by any chance?

 

[GGizmo]

I am avoiding the (offtopic) Gillette advert as I don't think I have ever seen it.
If I am forced to see adverts on a platform I just ignore them, will switch to somethign else whilst they are on generally, or hover over the "skip to main content" button if its one that you can skip before the advert finishes
Can you link it by any chance?

The advert is in this page;

Gillette faces backlash and boycott over '#MeToo advert'

The video about toxic masculinity, bullying and men's behaviour sparks outrage online.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Tony Edwards]

Can you link it by any chance?

Just to annoy certain people here is the Guardians video.

 

[dowie]

Top was a registered company before Musk. Max Hodax was a registered company who made Nuralink. Space X is actually a trademark that Musk founded.
You have pointed out 5 companies that musk was involved in

I've pointed out 5 companies he's created, you claimed he'd not created any companies for some bizarre reason.

Telsa CO founder?....how is that possible, he wasn't there when it was founded, or trademarked, or developed even, he bought in an tried to rewrite the history of the company, if you believe that or want to believe that, how are you in a position to question others?

It's not a belief it's just fact he didn't initially found Tesla, he is however considered a co-founder. It's not something I'm choosing to believe, it's a fact I'm presenting you with, he was the main investor, he has cofounder status and realistically he's the one who made it what it is today.

I'm not questioning the others, I'm simply calling out the BS claim you made that Elon didn't create any companies, he's clearly founded 5 from the start and is the main person behind Tesla's success too.

As for government subsidies. Is that meant as some sort of criticism? Tesla was able to get a loan from the department of energy for making fuel-efficient cars? You're unaware that governments incentivise R&D efforts in some industries?

Or are you referring to NASA or the US Airforce contracting with SpaceX? Private companies supplying services to the government?

What specifically are you trying to criticise there? So far you've just made up some false claims and then when called out on them you throw in little incoherent snippets.

 

[Ahleckz]

None of that should need explaining to you.

As above I'm concerned you'd find it good material to try and get a raise from - sexual harassment is a serious issue. As a team leader and supervisor at work I go to a lot of effort to ensure people feel safe and comfortable at work, that work isn't somewhere people might dread coming into every day because of the way other people might treat them, etc.

Ok. Good talk! Can’t explain why a message about calling out sexual harassment upset you so much but you were so upset you boycotted them and then some weird thing about your job. But if you are calling out sexual harassment in your workplace and making your job a welcoming place that’s good. Not sure what the relevance is though.
I think we will have to leave this here…

 

[Tony Edwards]

None of that should need explaining to you.

As above I'm concerned you'd find it good material to try and get a raise from - sexual harassment is a serious issue. As a team leader and supervisor at work I go to a lot of effort to ensure people feel safe and comfortable at work, that work isn't somewhere people might dread coming into every day because of the way other people might treat them, etc.



That isn't the [big] problem with it - the problem was the ad accusing a certain group, specifying towards a certain white male demographic, of being naturally and fundamentally a certain way and could only do better by being educated, or stopped from their behaviours by another groups of people. It was very small minded, agenda lead rather than constructive towards tackling a very real problem.

Though it certainly would not have gone down well the other way around.

I have to ask. Have you actually seen the advert?

 

[cu3ed]

I've pointed out 5 companies he's created, you claimed he'd not created any companies for some bizarre reason.



It's not a belief it's just fact he didn't initially found Tesla, he is however considered a co-founder. It's not something I'm choosing to believe, it's a fact I'm presenting you with, he was the main investor, he has cofounder status and realistically he's the one who made it what it is today.

I'm not questioning the others, I'm simply calling out the BS claim you made that Elon didn't create any companies, he's clearly founded 5 from the start and is the main person behind Tesla's success too.

As for government subsidies. Is that meant as some sort of criticism? Tesla was able to get a loan from the department of energy for making fuel-efficient cars? You're unaware that governments incentivise R&D efforts in some industries?

Or are you referring to NASA or the US Airforce contracting with SpaceX? Private companies supplying services to the government?

What specifically are you trying to criticise there? So far you've just made up some false claims and then when called out on them you throw in little incoherent snippets.

Ahhh you think Investor is a founder, its...its not.
He was NOT a founder of Tesla, he tried to rewrite what actually happenned.
Also..kinda..kinda missing a lot of where the tax subsidies and Treasury, for every "fact" you think you re making you seem to be deliberately leaving a lot of into out.