Well we pretty much are a vassal state to Amerika and the people didn't have a choice. You know Coca Cola Wonderbra. But they at least guarantee our security so overall it's good place to be inside or outside the EU.
The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down
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Soldato
or , at the company level , I don't see why the below (I assume everyones done due google diligence), doesn't redress the employee contribution imbalance -
having worked in 2 us high tech companies your actions are controlled by policy handed down from above (diversity, ethics ...) - that trumps my personal affiliations.
The FEC has the real numbers for each company.
So I trust that.
I find it funny that the lefties are going silly over this.
More on the above, Ben Horowitz of Andreessen Horowitz has announced they're joining the deal. Wonder who will be the CEO in the long term, would Jack ever come back? Elon seems to be due to assume the role initially but it isn't clear if that is going to be a short-term thing to set his plans in motion or if he's going to be willing or able to juggle that alongside Tesla, SpaceX etc..
Economics Professor Patrick Minford was already mentioned.
Brexit was always about short term pain for long term gain, in the libertarian movement support for Brexit was pretty unanimous, outside of the EU we at least have the possibility to make necessary economic reforms for example like abolishing all tariffs on goods which simply serve to protect people from low prices.
I don't think anyone politically aware was believing either Farage's 350 million for the NHS or whatever it was, or the projected end times from the remain campaign who were saying he wouldn't be protected by the ECHR anymore.
Sounds like you don’t have a clue who he is.
Twitter doesn’t require proving identity, Musk is looking to reduce spam he’ll still retain the ability to be anonymous. Why is membership an issue?
Why would you expect me to show respect and give a reasonable reply to a group of people that deliberately misrepresent my position in bad faith and demonise me just because I voted leave?
"I knew it was going to be disastrous but it upsets people I don't like so it's worth it."
What a **** attitude.
These ridiculous statements for example which are pure fantasy. Suggesting that everyone who voted for Brexit was doing it to upset others, and yes, of course I wanted the country I live in to turn disastrous. You couldn't make it up.
Anyway this isn't the Brexit thread and the above posters have shown no interest in good faith discussion...
Why would you expect me to show respect and give a reasonable reply to a group of people that deliberately misrepresent my position in bad faith and demonise me just because I voted leave?
These ridiculous statements for example which are pure fantasy. Suggesting that everyone who voted for Brexit was doing it to upset others, and yes, of course I wanted the country I live in to turn disastrous. You couldn't make it up.
"I knew it was going to be disastrous but it upsets people I don't like so it's worth it."
What a **** attitude.
Anyway this isn't the Brexit thread and the above posters have shown no interest in good faith discussion...
Talk about bad faith and then take my quote out of context.
The “you actually wanted it to be disastrous” was part of a couple of hypothetical scenarios, hence the OR before it. It wasn’t a direct accusation.
If it helps restore some “good faith” I’ll retract the point that you wanted it to be disastrous. But you knew it would be and voted for it anyway. To me that still seems bizarre. Unless, as I said in my reply to Roar, the potential non-economic upsides were significant enough to offset the economic damage. I haven’t seen any evidence, before or after the vote, to suggest that’s plausible.
As for this:
"I knew it was going to be disastrous but it upsets people I don't like so it's worth it."
What a **** attitude.
That’s not a bad-faith interpretation of this kind of post:
As far as Miniford goes, his conclusions were based on almost complete deregulation along the lines of the “Singapore on Thames” model. He also predicted the collapse of UK farming, fishing, and manufacturing because of the above. If that’s more “short-term pain for long-term gain” then those long-term gains must be huge… I just still don’t know what they could be.
IIRC you’re a staunch libertarian, so perhaps it makes sense that you consider Miniford to be credible.
@Irish_Tom How did you get a quote within a quote?
I edit the post in the BB Code editor (not rich text) and manually paste it in with quote tags:
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[QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
Talk about bad faith and then take my quote out of context.
The “you actually wanted it to be disastrous” was part of a couple of hypothetical scenarios, hence the OR before it. It wasn’t a direct accusation.
If it helps restore some “good faith” I’ll retract the point that you wanted it to be disastrous. But you knew it would be and voted for it anyway. To me that still seems bizarre. Unless, as I said in my reply to Roar, the potential non-economic upsides were significant enough to offset the economic damage. I haven’t seen any evidence, before or after the vote, to suggest that’s plausible.
As for this:
That’s not a bad-faith interpretation of this kind of post:
As far as Miniford goes, his conclusions were based on almost complete deregulation along the lines of the “Singapore on Thames” model. He also predicted the collapse of UK farming, fishing, and manufacturing because of the above. If that’s more “short-term pain for long-term gain” then those long-term gains must be huge… I just still don’t know what they could be.
IIRC you’re a staunch libertarian, so perhaps it makes sense that you consider Miniford to be credible.
You threw the first punch by suggesting that I voted for Brexit to upset people, which was bad faith at that point, so I had a dig at you as you seemed to be overly upset and antagonistic to me simply because of the way I voted.
I said the implementation would be disastrous because we have a crap government, not that leaving the EU would inherently be disastrous otherwise I wouldn't have voted for it.
As I said the libertarian movement was very much in favour of leaving the EU for a whole host of reasons that many politicians didn't even touch on, I only referred to Miniford in passing because the implication being made was that everyone who voted for brexit was doing so because of the lies of the leave campaign and not a single expert was in support of it, the remain campaign at one point were fabricating material claiming that Martin Lewis from moneysavingexpert had said we should vote remain and were forced to retract that false information after he pulled them up on it, he quite aptly had said a leave vote was a gamble that things will get better in the long run. And that really hits a key point in politics, it's all about short term thinking, 5 year cycles which in the context of an 80 year lifespan are nothing, never mind the long term existence of the country.
Perhaps this video will give some context as to why most Libertarians voted the way they did.
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You’re right, I fired the first shot but not because of the way you voted, because of the attitude you expressed about the vote and towards remain voters in the posts that I quoted. I’ll try and be less quick to rise to it in future.
Ok, I can see a theoretical distinction between those two positions. However, if you believe that the people who are going to implement it will fail to do it successfully, those two points are somewhat contradictory, don’t you think?
You could say “in principle it’s a good idea but it wouldn’t work in practice”. I can understand that perspective. But you have to be incredibly principled to follow through with if that’s what you believe. I guess it could be considered courageous in some respects to persevere with that kind of collective self-harm on principle.
There was one (prominent) economic expert in support of it and even he conceded his model would lead to the destruction of major parts of the UK economy. That’s why all but the most ardent Brexit supports don’t find him credible.
haha, knew you would claim Minford, whose model was completely discredited
You don't seem to understand the impacts of tariffs .
Oh, and the remain campaign never 'projected end times', that was more propaganda form certain Brexiters to discredit the true economic and social costs of leaving the EU, which so far the forecasts have been absolutely spot on. So sounds like again you just fell for more anti-EU propaganda and latched on to a single discredited economicsts ignoring the majority of economists who have produced accurate and verified models.
Minford model assumed destruction of UK manufacturing, farming and fishing, the removal of most low paid labour , removing worker rights and massively increasing income inequality by creating a tax heaven and inviting massive investment form Russian Oligarchs and middle eastern oils billions to buy up more of London and shield their wealth. Even under that scenario where the UK becomes some hellish tax heaven, Minford's model was deeply flawed and massively too simplistic to the point of being useless.
Soldato
Looks at thread title; looks at brexit content; looks at title.
Twitter, I just don't care about it. If it gets too radical it's gonna be in a ton of legal trouble.
Twitter, I just don't care about it. If it gets too radical it's gonna be in a ton of legal trouble.
It's not a case of thinking "it's a good idea but it wouldn't work in practice", as the guy in that video explained, the libertarian hope was that in the long term future Britain would be able to become more libertarian outside of the EU than in it, looking beyond the current government and the awful undemocratic system we have. While I voted leave I wasn't a brexiter by any means, and when the public vote leave after listening to a prominent economist as discredited in his field as he may be, I can't call them stupid for doing so. It's very different to listening to some rubbish Farage was putting out.
Soldato
We are never going to become more libertarian because the Tories will never give up that much power over us. Even now they are planning to weaking our data protection laws after leaving the EU. Its a pipe dream to imagine we'd gain rights leaving the EU, we'll lose them for sure.
And in other news that surprises absolutely no one, Trump has his case against Twitter dismissed. I'm sure he managed to raise a load of dosh off his sucker fanatics though, they just love to keep giving him their money.
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