The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

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Colonel_Klinck said:
We are never going to become more libertarian because the Tories will never give up that much power over us. Even now they are planning to weaking our data protection laws after leaving the EU. Its a pipe dream to imagine we'd gain rights leaving the EU, we'll lose them for sure.
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So you're predicting eternal tory rule? A V for Vendetta liberation is probably more likely than that!
 
Why does everyone have to mud-sling whenever they express an opinion:

"left wing media melts down"​

It seems to be a popular thing these days that people can't say anything without an attack on the "extreme right wing" or the "crazy lefties". Everything seems to be extreme these days. Black, white, never grey.

Anyway.

I think Musk will bring some good things but I am concerned about absolute freedom of speech. I don't think freedom of speech ever included the right to insult people. I mean basically this is kinda similar to the argument for personal freedom. Yes, fine, but also there is the law. Freedom without law is chaos. So freedom of speech, sure, but within the confines of the law. And Musk will fine himself butting heads with governments if he doesn't respect that.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
We are never going to become more libertarian because the Tories will never give up that much power over us. Even now they are planning to weaking our data protection laws after leaving the EU.
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Isn't that a bit contradictory? "the Tories will never give up that much power over us"... [inserts example where they're giving up power/weakening regulations]
 
SpellowHouse said:
Why does everyone have to mud-sling whenever they express an opinion:

"left wing media melts down"​

It seems to be a popular thing these days that people can't say anything without an attack on the "extreme right wing" or the "crazy lefties". Everything seems to be extreme these days. Black, white, never grey.

Anyway.

I think Musk will bring some good things but I am concerned about absolute freedom of speech. I don't think freedom of speech ever included the right to insult people. I mean basically this is kinda similar to the argument for personal freedom. Yes, fine, but also there is the law. Freedom without law is chaos. So freedom of speech, sure, but within the confines of the law. And Musk will fine himself butting heads with governments if he doesn't respect that.
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Normally I'd agree with the over amplification of terms like 'extreme right/left wing', however, it's pretty much just reflects the situation we have had over the last 10 years.
This meme is hilariously on the money:
lpNzillh.jpg
Since around 2012 there has been this huge push towards identity politics, only this left wing group of very progressive people started from Feminism, through Race to LGBT, inventing terms like 'white privilege' and 'misogynistic patriachy' amongst a few.. When normal people challenge their quite odd but definitely quite 'extreme' views, despite them previously being pretty centrist, they suddenly started getting accused of being 'alt right', another term for a far right supremacy movement, since that started, the 'left wing progressives' have had to be separated from the old normal left leaning people and the term 'woke' and 'progressive' came about.

But the thread title is not a mud sling, the US Media outlets that started reporting on the Musk takeover are self confessed left wing media outlets and they did react very poorly to the news with absolute catastrophising abound.. Even Twitter employees started posting how scared they were and reports of people crying at the thought of being owned by Elon Musk..

But I agree on the freedom of speech, I'm OK with it to a point, but do support censorship in that I don't think people being really vile to each other should be tolerated, however, whilst Twitter and twitter fans claim this is what twitter already does, the bit missing which I feel Elon 'may' bring to the table is impartiality and transparency. Twitter have shown a fair bit of bias since they have decided on which groups need protecting (over and above any laws) and enforce censorship based on who/what they 'prefer' to protect.. I hate Trump but if you read their rationale for banning him it had nothing to do with what he did on Twitter, it's what they 'felt' he was doing outside of twitter, or 'context' as they put it, however that means whatever their own personal 'leanings' are is then used to view that context and that's where they are..

I am also not a fan of Musk, he vastly over promises and then underdelivers on a lot of things, so even though I think bringing transparency to twitter etc might be nice, I am not sure I see it working out, but time will tell.
 
That's a nice picture, except when you compare actual policies of the Republican party and large parts of the Democrat party you'll tend to see that the Democrats are now nearer 90's Republicans than the current Republicans, and the current Republican voters seem to consider the extreme wing of their party from the 90's as not being republican as they're "too soft"...
 
That picture is the exact opposite of reality though. The right had moved ever further to the right, the left hsve followed. The major left parties are now further right than the right wing parties of 20-30 years ago. The labour party have been especially bsd at trying to be ever so slightly less authoritarian than the Tories, essentially mirroring the Tory party from the previous election. It was only under Corbyn did they return to the center, yet somehow being politically central got thrm branded as Marxists on the British press.
 
Hmm two posters claim the meme is on the money then two posters claim it isn't accurate and the opposite is true, no one actually substantiates their claim other than making assertions.

What does the data from pew research show... seems the meme is more accurate than not, while the right have shifted a bit the left have shifted by a heck of a lot more:

 
dowie said:
Isn't that a bit contradictory? "the Tories will never give up that much power over us"... [inserts example where they're giving up power/weakening regulations]
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The government weakening data protections isn't giving up power dowie. Strengthening our privacy and data protection would be giving up power over us and our data. So no I don't expect this or any government to follow to give the people more rights and the government less.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
The government weakening data protections isn't giving up power dowie. Strengthening our privacy and data protection would be giving up power over us and our data. So no I don't expect this or any government to follow to give the people more rights and the government less.
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So in your mind a move towards libertarianism involves more/stronger regulations? Think you’ve got that backwards…
 
dowie said:
So in your mind a move towards libertarianism involves more/stronger regulations? Think you’ve got that backwards…
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The government giving themselves more power over our data and online activity is a libertarian dream is it?

Its moot point anyway. We would need a revolution to get get even close to libertarian dream here, we'd need one to get close to the freedoms enshrined in the US constitution.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
The government giving themselves more power over our data and online activity is a libertarian dream is it?
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So, again, you seem to think more regulations are needed for libertarianism. Fewer regulations = government has more “power” somehow.

I think you’ve got that backwards. Libertarians tend to be in favour of fewer regulations!
 
dowie said:
Hmm two posters claim the meme is on the money then two posters claim it isn't accurate and the opposite is true, no one actually substantiates their claim other than making assertions.

What does the data from pew research show... seems the meme is more accurate than not, while the right have shifted a bit the left have shifted by a heck of a lot more:

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A lack of any change whatsoever from Congress, rentier capitalism destroying middle-class wealth and making working-class physically unable to accrue wealth, toxic information war being fought on social media exaggerating and entrenching support for radically divergent policies and of course a recession which usually takes about a decade to manifest in populist politics.

Not an exhaustive list, but it's no wonder why people have no interest in the centre-ground when it hasn't done anything for them.

Mind you I'm always wary about quantifying political belief as I feel it oversimplifies the problem when context is critical to the discussion.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
With the occasional Labour gov when they get a leader that is electable and the voters are so sick of years of Tory rule. Just look at the previous 50 years.
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I'm a bit more optimistic that PR will get implemented eventually, at least the Tories have made a little progress on the voting front by equalising constituency sizes (despite doing it to get them more seats).

Do you think being in the EU would result in a significant libertarian social policies like the legalisation of drugs and sex work?

D.P. said:
That picture is the exact opposite of reality though. The right had moved ever further to the right, the left hsve followed. The major left parties are now further right than the right wing parties of 20-30 years ago. The labour party have been especially bsd at trying to be ever so slightly less authoritarian than the Tories, essentially mirroring the Tory party from the previous election. It was only under Corbyn did they return to the center, yet somehow being politically central got thrm branded as Marxists on the British press.
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Corbyn unfortunately attracted a large socialist/marxist/communist voter base with both the people running the Labour conference, the speakers and attendees referring to each other as "comrades" and demanding socialism.
 
chroniclard said:
Thing is the right is mostly unpleasant, left isn't.
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Personally I find any left or right within sight of the centre mostly pleasant.

Could you expand on 'the right'? Generalised as you have the would imply that spans from anyone slightly right of centre to a fully paid up member of a supremacy group! which is a good example of why that meme is so on the money.
 
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