The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

[unwashed potato!]

Obviously I know Vincent, Tony, potato, Jono are left leaning

In which country? Voting tory makes me left? Or not wanting another general election (that I think Labour will do best in) and staying with the current guys, makes me left leaning? I'm not so sure.

The thing people don't realise is that, being left of trump, is very easy for most people to find themselves. It doesn't make them left

Also people like Chris seem to think there is an issue with not liking someone's political views. I assume he doesn't like Bidens, so why can't we dislike Elon's? To simplify everything negative about Elon as just "they don't like his political views" is rather simple minded/stupid if I'm being generous.

Of course if Bill Gates comes out tomorrow and says "I'm voting republican and think you all should too as they are the party that sorts out the problems the country faces like high insulin costs", I'd start to say that yeah, Bill Gates is an idiot, just as I would with Elon. And then Elon shows again and again and again and again new reasons why he's an idiot, and we say again and again, Elon should and can do better and we want him to do better, and Chris goes "it's just because of politics and nothing else" simplified to make it work in Chris's head it seems, but Chris, the reality isn't that complex. I just epxlained it for you above. No need to thank me, but if you want, a footlong subway Italian bmt to my door would be welcome

 

[Roar87]

Actually it was when he started calling people pedos I realized his public image might not be in line with who he actually is

Oh, you missed the part where the diver just randomly decided to insult him? Elon was asked by the Thai government if he could help, he sent SpaceX engineers over to see if they could help, only to be insulted by one of the divers. It was stupid all round, but people seem to forget he didn't start that. If someone insulted you after you spent time and money trying to help people, after being asked by the people in charge, would you not also feel rather annoyed? I would

 

[Roar87]

It started way before his Twitter escapades - that just provided the evidence that his narcissism and ego were out of control and causing him to make silly decisions just to get in the headlines. Bouyed off the success of SpaceX and Tesla with cash to burn and a majority of people thinking he walked on water as the second coming of Tech Jesus, he attempts to sell ideas as his own despite them being decades old, none of which go anywhere. Hyperloop is the easiest one to debunk as a century old idea that the laws of physics take a massive dump all over, Neuralink has only succeeded in killing a bunch of monkeys and cannot do what he claims it will due to the layout of the human brain, Boring Company is just there to dig tunnels to drive Tesla's in which achieves nothing that an actual subway can't, but with more issues, and Twitter was just to get in the news headlines.

Not sure there's any reasons to actually hate him there, he has some tech companies which haven't yet been as successful as his other tech companies, or the technology isn't there yet, so what?

 

[Jono8]

Is the idea that people shouldn't be gits to each other considered left leaning these days?

Obviously, yes.

 

[Jono8]

In which country? Voting tory makes me left? Or not wanting another general election (that I think Labour will do best in) and staying with the current guys, makes me left leaning? I'm not so sure.

The thing people don't realise is that, being left of trump, is very easy for most people to find themselves. It doesn't make them left

Exactly this. I voted Tory right up until after Brexit, where I changed to Lib Dem.

Never once voted for Labour, green etc.

As you say, trying to be half decent and rejecting objectively awful, idiotic far right wing **** nuggets like Trump etc seems to make you left wing now.

 

[unwashed potato!]

Not sure there's any reasons to actually hate him

Mate! You're the one who keeps banging on about how people hate him.seems you're unable to comprehend this. You say people hate Elon, and then say they don't actually hate him based on what they write!

When someone writes a whole post about Elon, you write "there's no reaosn to hate Elon here".

So which is it? Will you now stop dismissing actual real reasons to criticise Elon as just "blind hate" given you don't think their reaosn show any hate.

How it is that in one day you can say users all hate Elon, and then that they don't actually hate them. Now open your mind the rest and realise that there's more to it than the simple view you've made up. Come on I beleive in you. You're almost there. We are all routing for you.

 

[ebilcake]

Trump derangement syndrome can affect anyone, even the most rational people. Not the best example. lol

 

[mattx4]

Oh, you missed the part where the diver just randomly decided to insult him? Elon was asked by the Thai government if he could help, he sent SpaceX engineers over to see if they could help, only to be insulted by one of the divers. It was stupid all round, but people seem to forget he didn't start that. If someone insulted you after you spent time and money trying to help people, after being asked by the people in charge, would you not also feel rather annoyed? I would

If you were one of the worlds best cave divers and some billionaire turns up trying to tell you what to do when he has no idea what he's doing and hogging the spotlight from the real heroes you would be a little annoyed

To me it seemed a bit like a PR stunt. Then when he got criticism that he was about as helpful as Paul Gascoigne turning up with a bucket of chicken, instead of the universal praise he thought he deserved he lashed out with insults. Which showed what a narcissist Elon is

 

[Roar87]

If you were one of the worlds best cave divers and some billionaire turns up trying to tell you what to do when he has no idea what he's doing and hogging the spotlight from the real heroes you would be a little annoyed

To me it seemed a bit like a PR stunt. Then when he got criticism that he was about as helpful as Paul Gascoigne turning up with a bucket of chicken, instead of the universal praise he thought he deserved he lashed out with insults. Which showed what a narcissist Elon is

He was literally asked by the Thai government if he could help. If he showed up off his own back and tried to turn it into a PR stunt then agreed, but that isn't what happened. You shouldn't get insulted for offering help, the submarine idea was completely unsuitable in the end, but you wouldn't know that unless you were there

 

[Penfold101]

Not sure there's any reasons to actually hate him there, he has some tech companies which haven't yet been as successful as his other tech companies, or the technology isn't there yet, so what?

You’re right, which is why I don’t hate him - I simply don’t understand worship he gets from some people so provide evidence as to why I think the way I do based on the man’s actions.

The fact that so many of his ideas can be shown to be unworkable with ease yet people just lap it up without checking just makes it worse.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Actually it was when he started calling people pedos I realized his public image might not be in line with who he actually is

I think this is were I started to think he was a massive bell end. I took very little notice of him until then.

If you were one of the worlds best cave divers and some billionaire turns up trying to tell you what to do when he has no idea what he's doing and hogging the spotlight from the real heroes you would be a little annoyed

To me it seemed a bit like a PR stunt. Then when he got criticism that he was about as helpful as Paul Gascoigne turning up with a bucket of chicken, instead of the universal praise he thought he deserved he lashed out with insults. Which showed what a narcissist Elon is

Weve seen what he did a Twitter so I assume only one child would have been saved if his stupid idea worked as the others were deemed slackers anyway.

 

[dowie]

If you were one of the worlds best cave divers and some billionaire turns up trying to tell you what to do when he has no idea what he's doing and hogging the spotlight from the real heroes you would be a little annoyed

The world's best cave divers didn't seem to have an issue with him tho and were happy with him offering to assist. He didn't try telling anyone what to do, quite the opposite, he wanted to know if it was still worth working on the thing and was told to continue by the team.

One of the local ex-pat cavers who had initially been first on the scene went on the news (perhaps unfamiliar with Elon's comms with the guys later leading the efforts) and threw in a childish comment, Elon responded with his own childish comment.

The ex-pat caver guy then hired lawyer Lin Wood, an apparent conspiracy theorist and 911 truther (this is interesting reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._Lin_Wood) and attempted to sue Elon in court... they lost.

 

[Roar87]

You’re right, which is why I don’t hate him - I simply don’t understand worship he gets from some people so provide evidence as to why I think the way I do based on the man’s actions.

The fact that so many of his ideas can be shown to be unworkable with ease yet people just lap it up without checking just makes it worse.

I think you're being overly harsh with the word "unworkable" for tech that simply isn't mature yet, everything starts somewhere

 

[dowie]

You’re right, which is why I don’t hate him - I simply don’t understand worship he gets from some people so provide evidence as to why I think the way I do based on the man’s actions.

The fact that so many of his ideas can be shown to be unworkable with ease yet people just lap it up without checking just makes it worse.

Dubious... I'm sure people could have been equally dismissive about the viability of electric cars or self-driving capabilities or re-launchable rockets (or indeed even the idea of funding a private space company in the first place.)

 

[Penfold101]

I think you're being overly harsh with the word "unworkable" for tech that simply isn't mature yet, everything starts somewhere

Worth a watch if you have the time - happy to hear your thoughts afterwards.

Dubious... I'm sure people could have been equally dismissive about the viability of electric cars or self-driving capabilities or re-launchable rockets (or indeed even the idea of funding a private space company in the first place.)

Electric cars have been around for decades though - I had my milk delivered by then when I was growing up. Tesla did lead the way into the market with that single goal and setting up the charging network, forcing the other manufacturers to take note and develop their own.

Self driving isn’t a big thing - it’ll also never do what Musk has been claiming for years now, as there’s no way a car can drive from one side of the country to the other with no input and safely manage every single possible situation that could arise. If there was no traffic, then it can definitely do it, but it’ll never be fully approved (in my opinion)

The private space company thing is purely a matter of money - it took a long time to get right but the Falcon 9 is a piece of artwork. No government was ever going to let NASA waste the money it took to develop it into the reusable system it is though, that’s the difference. I’m very interested to see what Starship can do, but I remain sceptical and honestly do not believe it’ll ever make it to Mars. I shall hold my hands up the day it does get into orbit though.

 

[Freakbro]

In which country? Voting tory makes me left?

Exactly this. I voted Tory right up until after Brexit, where I changed to Lib Dem.

Never once voted for Labour, green etc.

As you say, trying to be half decent and rejecting objectively awful, idiotic far right wing **** nuggets like Trump etc seems to make you left wing now.

Well, that shows Chris' idea of the people who criticise Musk is even further from the truth than I thought.

Though Chris has openly said the current Tory Govt are far to liberal for his liking anyway, so when using that as a yardstick we're all going to be "lefties" in his eyes (Not that Liberal is synonymous with Left anyway but it seems to get lumped together a lot around here)

 

[dowie]

Electric cars have been around for decades though - I had my milk delivered by then when I was growing up. Tesla did lead the way into the market with that single goal and setting up the charging network, forcing the other manufacturers to take note and develop their own.

Yes, that milk float required a huge rack of batteries and went like 10mph or so (you can mod them apparently). Tesla has easily pushed tech forwards by several years in this area.

Self driving isn’t a big thing - it’ll also never do what Musk has been claiming for years now, as there’s no way a car can drive from one side of the country to the other with no input and safely manage every single possible situation that could arise. If there was no traffic, then it can definitely do it, but it’ll never be fully approved (in my opinion)

It's the last few % that probably take the same effort as getting the first 95% done, they made huge advances in this area with AI/ML so again I'd not be dismissive of it.

The private space company thing is purely a matter of money - it took a long time to get right but the Falcon 9 is a piece of artwork. No government was ever going to let NASA waste the money it took to develop it into the reusable system it is though, that’s the difference. I’m very interested to see what Starship can do, but I remain sceptical and honestly do not believe it’ll ever make it to Mars. I shall hold my hands up the day it does get into orbit though.

No, it isn't just a matter of money, it's also putting the team together to pull it off, no one else had developed a reusable rocket and they managed it and the team clearly is efficient:

SpaceX vs. NASA: Cost

SpaceX is 10X cheaper with 30X lower cost overrun than NASA in lifting payload into space. Why? Because SpaceX is platform-based, NASA not.

medium.com

SpaceX also outperforms in terms of development cost. NASA (2010) verified SpaceX’s total development cost for the Falcon 9 rocket at approximately US$390 million (including US$90 million towards the Falcon 1 rocket) in year-of-expenditure prices 2002–2009. NASA’s 2010 report goes on to estimate “the predicted cost to develop the Falcon 9 if done by NASA would have been between $1.7 billion and $4.0 billion.” SpaceX’s Falcon 9 system was thus 4–10 times cheaper in development cost than NASA’s own estimate.

Similarly, for heavy-lift rockets, SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy far outperforms rivals. For the Apollo programme (which included 15 flight-capable Saturn V’s rockets) the US spent US$25.4 billion in year-of-expenditure prices (1961–1972) or approximately US$150–160 billion in today’s prices (United States Congress, 1973 p. 1271). The development cost of the Saturn V rockets accounted for about 40% of the total spend on the programme or roughly US$60 billion today. NASA’s contemporary heavy-lift rocket, the Space Launch System (SLS) has a cost over US$21.2 billion in year-of-expenditures dollars 2011–2021. In comparison, SpaceX’s Falcon Heavy, with seven total landings under its belt as of January 2022, has a development cost between US$500–750 million (CNBC 8 February 2018). Berger (2018) correctly observes, “The Falcon Heavy is an absurdly low-cost heavy lift rocket.”

[...]

• In terms of frequency of cost overrun: Of the 181 NASA missions in our refence class, we had cost overrun data for 118 missions: 9 in 10 suffered a cost overrun. For SpaceX, the comparable number is 5 in 10, which is exactly what a good portfolio manager would aim for.

In sum, SpaceX is 10X cheaper with 30X lower cost overrun than NASA in lifting payload into space.

Handwaving dismissals of his achievements in tech/engineering are frankly rather silly regardless of what you think of him as a person or whether he's a douchebag at times, ditto to the frequent lies that are told re: his background where people try to make out he's some spoilt Trump-esq rich kid handed everything on a plate.

 

[imtoooldforthis]

Yup it was the pedo thing that made me change my view of him being a slightly eccentric billionaire to perhaps being a bit of a helmet.

Since then he’s gone full on with the helmetry (I just invented that work I think) and it’s hard to come to any conclusion other than him being a tedious attention whore.

 

[visibleman]

Not sure there's any reasons to actually hate him there....

You do know criticism doesn't equate to hate, don't you?

 

[Penfold101]

Yes, that milk float required a huge rack of batteries and went like 10mph or so (you can mod them apparently). Tesla has easily pushed tech forwards by several years in this area.



It's the last few % that probably take the same effort as getting the first 95% done, they made huge advances in this area with AI/ML so again I'd not be dismissive of it.



No, it isn't just a matter of money, it's also putting the team together to pull it off, no one else had developed a reusable rocket and they managed it and the team clearly is efficient:

SpaceX vs. NASA: Cost

SpaceX is 10X cheaper with 30X lower cost overrun than NASA in lifting payload into space. Why? Because SpaceX is platform-based, NASA not.

medium.com

Handwaving dismissals of his achievements in tech/engineering are frankly rather silly regardless of what you think of him as a person or whether he's a douchebag at times, ditto to the frequent lies that are told re: his background where people try to make out he's some spoilt Trump-esq rich kid handed everything on a plate.

I'm not dismissing any of his achievements - putting together SpaceX and Tesla was an achievement, and what the SpaceX team have achieved is remarkable and shows what can be done when you're dealing with a private company and not a governmental system. Those are the projects which have proved they can work - none of the others have, and the Hyperloop alone never will because physics is a thing. Musk even admitted in interview that the reason he pushed so hard for it was because he wanted the California High Speed Rail project to fail meaning everyone would be more likely to buy a Tesla. Assuming that they'll all work because the first two did is the wrong way to look at it IMO.

SLS isn't comparable to Falcon Heavy BTW - they're designed for two different markets, with Starship meant to be the vehicle capable of what SLS can do, just in a different way. I look forward to seeing if it can actually do it.

I do believe this is the way forward for NASA though - the money saved by going out to private companies for contracts is bound to be huge compared to developing everything in-house like SLS, and the sooner Blue Origin and all the others get up to speed with similar launchers the better. The trouble is that space is difficult. REALLY difficult. I should know - I've played Kerbal Space Program a lot...