The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

[unwashed potato!]

What is your point, if you have one?

He wants you to know he's the victim.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I have said in several threads that the left nowadays seem to have no nuances, no shades of grey, they speak as one, individualism seems hard to find. It's probably shunned and seen as a weakness in the world of group speak.

ANY opinion from someone considered right leaning is to be vehemently disagreed with, not even to be discussed. To be mocked, preferably banned. Your reply is rather demonstrative of this.

pot, kettle, black. Chris revelling in his grievance.

 

[Roar87]

Retrain as what, an AI?

I don't have an exhaustive list of the medical positions that will be available once AI becomes widespread, it isn't a choice that they retrain, they can either choose another way to spend their time or retrain. This will apply to a large majority of professions. You may as well be arguing against the automobile because Blacksmiths will be out of work.

You've just put radiologists and oncologists on the dole unless they just want to be the face that relays what the AI has come up with to the patient.

I would envisage patients will still wish to speak to a Doctor regarding their results, humans won't be taken out of the loop, AI will simply assist their work.

Hardly what they spent years of training and possibly $100k plus to end up doing.

No one cares how much someone spent on their degree. As an aside everyone will have a personal AI tutor if they wish and the ability to learn almost any subject at the highest level without needing to pay thousands for a degree.

Maybe they just sign up for UBI like all the lawyers, accountants, etc.

They could.

Though they could just join the nurses as AI isn't going to be wiping people's arses.

I'm sure in the future there will be robots assisting with care work, again I don't think we'll want to take humans out of the loop though.

I don't think you've thought this through. This would put billions out of work and so we'd need to change our whole economic system.

It doesn't matter whether I've thought it through, or what Elon Musk has thought it through, it's inevitable. Thousands of companies will be currently developing and researching AI, or looking at how it can improve their processes and drive productivity and efficiency. Look at how many AI powered chat bots there are dealing with customer queries, now imagine if they were indistinguishable from an actual human, that will be the case in quite soon.

Sounds like we'd end up more like Earth in The Expanse where the vast majority are given just enough to maybe survive but their lives are worthless while the likes of Musk and other elites reap the benefits. Sounds like hell to me.

I think you're taking the gloomer approach to this, you're seemingly caught up in envy that other people will reap the benefits, seemingly not realising that massively increased productivity benefits everyone. It doesn't matter how much money Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos has if everything is incredibly cheap for everyone.

If governments don't get ahead of this from a regulation point of view they are mad... oh who am I kidding, they will be lobbied by the likes of Musk and take the directorships after leaving office or buy up the stock and let them exploit it for themselves while the average person gets screwed over until the public outrage forces them to bring in some half arsed regulation to appease the masses. Little will change and they'll then spend years chipping away at that same regulation for their benefactors.

Again you just approach this with the eyes of someone suffering from envy and jealousy, like you're not looking at the fact that cancer patients will be treated much sooner and lives will be saved, that people will likely have to work far less hours and have a much better standard of living, you're irate that Elon Musk might have more money.

Elon's future for humanity sounds amazing if you are in the top 3%. For everyone else it sounds *****.

Ding ding ding. Envy.

 

[sg0]

Elon is really pushing his views about ai to the masses. Which is odd because we wont be the ones to decide how ai pans out. Google, Microsoft will give us light versions Etc and the powerful stuff is for geopolitics. Oh and the NHS will have to purchase a yearly subscription to get it. Then the price rockets when no one knows how to stuff anymore.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

I don't have an exhaustive list of the medical positions that will be available once AI becomes widespread, it isn't a choice that they retrain, they can either choose another way to spend their time or retrain. This will apply to a large majority of professions. You may as well be arguing against the automobile because Blacksmiths will be out of work.



I would envisage patients will still wish to speak to a Doctor regarding their results, humans won't be taken out of the loop, AI will simply assist their work.



No one cares how much someone spent on their degree. As an aside everyone will have a personal AI tutor if they wish and the ability to learn almost any subject at the highest level without needing to pay thousands for a degree.



They could.



I'm sure in the future there will be robots assisting with care work, again I don't think we'll want to take humans out of the loop though.



It doesn't matter whether I've thought it through, or what Elon Musk has thought it through, it's inevitable. Thousands of companies will be currently developing and researching AI, or looking at how it can improve their processes and drive productivity and efficiency. Look at how many AI powered chat bots there are dealing with customer queries, now imagine if they were indistinguishable from an actual human, that will be the case in quite soon.



I think you're taking the gloomer approach to this, you're seemingly caught up in envy that other people will reap the benefits, seemingly not realising that massively increased productivity benefits everyone. It doesn't matter how much money Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos has if everything is incredibly cheap for everyone.



Again you just approach this with the eyes of someone suffering from envy and jealousy, like you're not looking at the fact that cancer patients will be treated much sooner and lives will be saved, that people will likely have to work far less hours and have a much better standard of living, you're irate that Elon Musk might have more money.



Ding ding ding. Envy.

I'll give you this and I don't even mean it as a backhanded compliment: you are committed.

 

[unwashed potato!]

I'll give you this and I don't even mean it as a backhanded compliment: you are committed.

Committed to what though this is the weird thing. Roar is fairly arguing about the benefits of ai, which I largely agree with him on the possibility of ai, but I think he's forgot that this came about because of the chat between the great Musk and Rishi sunak and how all these leaders in their field apparently wanted to be there to see what Musk said, but what Musk said was nothing of any real interest. Roar can list benefits better than Elon can. That big ai summit taught us bugger all. And this is the Musk we need be considering as a genius in the field of ai, and therefore not an idiot with how he runs twitter. That's the key thing here.roar used this basic event to go against Elon being an idiot with twitter.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I think you're taking the gloomer approach to this, you're seemingly caught up in envy that other people will reap the benefits, seemingly not realising that massively increased productivity benefits everyone. It doesn't matter how much money Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos has if everything is incredibly cheap for everyone.

You've been asked so many times now where all these resources are coming from that are going to be so cheap that everyone will benefit. It almost sounds like trickle down economics that has been shown to be nonsense that just makes the rich richer and the middle/lower class get the scraps or these with magical resources that just seem to appear.

Again you just approach this with the eyes of someone suffering from envy and jealousy, like you're not looking at the fact that cancer patients will be treated much sooner and lives will be saved, that people will likely have to work far less hours and have a much better standard of living, you're irate that Elon Musk might have more money.

Very lame attempt at an insult Roar. I couldn't give a damn about money. I have a nice comfortable life and go more for a work life balance and so only like to work 3-4 days a week. I don't want for anything. If I was given £1m now I'd likely give most of it away to friends as I'd take more enjoyment from helping them than from buying something I don't need. This isn't going to make any difference to my work as AI/robots can't do what I do. It will however ruin the lives of billions of people. A friends son is at uni now training to be an accountant. Such jobs will be one of the first to be taken by AI.
You accuse me of looking at the gloomier side of it but you seem to believe its all going to be great. Nowhere have I said that using tech to help in industries like medicine isn't a major benefit but using software to spot say early cancer that a human might not catch is very very different to AI that people like Musk are talking about. There is a reason why he was talking about UNI and its because true AI will decimate industries, those companies won't hire humans when an AI can do the same job far far better for a fraction of the cost. What Elon didn't give any details on along with these magical resources is who is going to pay for this UBI when no one is paying income tax? You think these companies are going to be happy to pick up the tab? Are they ****.

Ding ding ding. Envy.

You seem to value money and those that have lots of it highly. You and I differ there. I wouldn't want Elon's life for any amount of money thanks. A string of failed relationships and being a part time dad to numerous children that he doesn't live with doesn't sound like a great man to be. Sounds like a self indulgent narcissist.

 

[PlacidCasual]

Elon is really pushing his views about ai to the masses. Which is odd because we wont be the ones to decide how ai pans out. Google, Microsoft will give us light versions Etc and the powerful stuff is for geopolitics. Oh and the NHS will have to purchase a yearly subscription to get it. Then the price rockets when no one knows how to stuff anymore.

I think the NHS has one of the largest and most complete modern medicine health data sets in the World. If we have any nouse we should be licensing it to train medical AI’s the World over not paying for subscriptions.

 

[Roar87]

You've been asked so many times now where all these resources are coming from that are going to be so cheap that everyone will benefit. It almost sounds like trickle down economics that has been shown to be nonsense that just makes the rich richer and the middle/lower class get the scraps or these with magical resources that just seem to appear.

I'm so confused, what do you think resource refers to? Human labour is a resource, a resource isn't just raw materials. The reason we can't all have a yacht isn't a lack of wood in the world, it's because of the time and labour that go into making one. Also, labour isn't just manual labour, it's also time spent by Engineers designing, Doctors diagnosing, or Accountants creating really boring balance sheets in Excel. So you're asking where the resource is coming from, but I don't think you understand your own question because you fundamentally don't know what "resource" is. However, AI can and will help also in in the mining industry, so will increase the amount of raw materials we can mine on an annual basis.

Top 10: Uses of Artificial Intelligence in Mining

Mining Digital considers some of the top uses for artificial intelligence (AI) in mining and how smart mining is leading changes in the industry

miningdigital.com

It will however ruin the lives of billions of people. A friends son is at uni now training to be an accountant. Such jobs will be one of the first to be taken by AI.

It doesn't matter. No one is going to stop the progression of this technology, again you're complaining that Blacksmiths are going to be defunct. New jobs will be created, industries will transform, ultimately people will work less and be more productive and the cost of everything will come down. Everyone will be better off. Period.

You accuse me of looking at the gloomier side of it but you seem to believe its all going to be great. Nowhere have I said that using tech to help in industries like medicine isn't a major benefit but using software to spot say early cancer that a human might not catch is very very different to AI that people like Musk are talking about. There is a reason why he was talking about UNI and its because true AI will decimate industries, those companies won't hire humans when an AI can do the same job far far better for a fraction of the cost. What Elon didn't give any details on along with these magical resources is who is going to pay for this UBI when no one is paying income tax? You think these companies are going to be happy to pick up the tab? Are they ****.

Why is no one paying tax? The tax system will simply be modified over time and will adapt to the changing economy. Companies will pay more tax, individuals will pay less tax. I'd imagine a tax bracket structure where you actually recieve money at the lower end, and as your earnings increase you pay money.

You seem to value money and those that have lots of it highly. You and I differ there. I wouldn't want Elon's life for any amount of money thanks. A string of failed relationships and being a part time dad to numerous children that he doesn't live with doesn't sound like a great man to be. Sounds like a self indulgent narcissist.

Yeah I mean, it's more rocket man bad stuff, I'm just not interested.

 

[StriderX]

Well if there's no limiting factor on birth rates due to a lack of work then there really isn't any more resources than we currently have.

 

[Trusty]

I'm so confused, what do you think resource refers to? Human labour is a resource, a resource isn't just raw materials. The reason we can't all have a yacht isn't a lack of wood in the world, it's because of the time and labour that go into making one. Also, labour isn't just manual labour, it's also time spent by Engineers designing, Doctors diagnosing, or Accountants creating really boring balance sheets in Excel. So you're asking where the resource is coming from, but I don't think you understand your own question because you fundamentally don't know what "resource" is. However, AI can and will help also in in the mining industry, so will increase the amount of raw materials we can mine on an annual basis.

Top 10: Uses of Artificial Intelligence in Mining

Mining Digital considers some of the top uses for artificial intelligence (AI) in mining and how smart mining is leading changes in the industry

miningdigital.com

There was a good article on McKinsey about AI and mining.

Inside a mining company’s AI transformation

How copper-mining giant Freeport-McMoRan unlocked next-level performance during their AI transformation with help from McKinsey data scientists and agile coaches.

www.mckinsey.com

I'll just add that most people think rare earth commodities are rare, they aren't, it's just we've allowed China to take the lead in it. If America and Europe actually pulled their fingers out we could have a large industry. I'm sure AI can help with finding and processing these commodities more efficiently too, no doubt China has wasted a lot of money over last 20 years in this field.

Some articles here if people want to read, because it seems a few posters here are under the impression that this stuff is rare.

Don't Panic about Rare Earth Elements

The materials used in iPhones and Tesla cars need not become a long-term casualty of a U.S.-China trade war

www.scientificamerican.com

‘Rare earths are not that rare’

Marty Weems of American Rare Earths argues there are mid-term alternatives to China

www.fdiintelligence.com

 

[CapitalOne]

The very idea that Musk, Sunak et al have the faintest clue what this will do to the average person is a fantasy. They can’t even manage that empathy without AI let alone with it. What I am sure they are worried about is themselves, unless anyone can point us to an example where they have shown honest understanding of what it’s like to live an average 21st century life on say £40k a year like what is that, the top 20%?

They just want to make sure they don’t get lynched.

 

[jpaul]

As the BBC satire suggested the novelty of the meeting for Rishi was to meet someone richer than him.

The AI element is required by the Rishi/Tory party to give them a shot at the next election
- did people really watch more than the first 10s of the Rishi meeting the Gates joke, it was obvious at that point it was a replay of xman waxing lyrical in previous meetings - Rogan etc.

 

[mattx4]

The very idea that Musk, Sunak et al have the faintest clue what this will do to the average person is a fantasy. They can’t even manage that empathy without AI let alone with it. What I am sure they are worried about is themselves, unless anyone can point us to an example where they have shown honest understanding of what it’s like to live an average 21st century life on say £40k a year like what is that, the top 20%?

They just want to make sure they don’t get lynched.

It's the only reason UBI is in the conversation and they would work out to the penny the amount that will essentially stop the peasants revolting

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

I'm so confused, what do you think resource refers to? Human labour is a resource, a resource isn't just raw materials. The reason we can't all have a yacht isn't a lack of wood in the world, it's because of the time and labour that go into making one. Also, labour isn't just manual labour, it's also time spent by Engineers designing, Doctors diagnosing, or Accountants creating really boring balance sheets in Excel. So you're asking where the resource is coming from, but I don't think you understand your own question because you fundamentally don't know what "resource" is. However, AI can and will help also in in the mining industry, so will increase the amount of raw materials we can mine on an annual basis.

Top 10: Uses of Artificial Intelligence in Mining

Mining Digital considers some of the top uses for artificial intelligence (AI) in mining and how smart mining is leading changes in the industry

miningdigital.com

Ah so human labour is the resource that will be plentiful. You know what that says to me? That there will be way more humans than jobs and so labour will be dirt cheap. Great news for the captains of industry. Not great news for the actual people doing the work. So we are talking about mass unemployment.

It doesn't matter. No one is going to stop the progression of this technology, again you're complaining that Blacksmiths are going to be defunct. New jobs will be created, industries will transform, ultimately people will work less and be more productive and the cost of everything will come down. Everyone will be better off. Period.

I can't see robots shoeing horses anytime soon Roar. Its not those jobs that will be under threat first, its the white collar workers that AI will destroy. No human can compete in that area with an AI. You seem to think its going to be factory automation, we already have that, its replacing whole buildings of people in offices. You work at a bank right? Those jobs will be done. What are you going to retrain as that AI can't do better? A blacksmith is an option, I know a couple though and trust me its back breaking work.

Why is no one paying tax? The tax system will simply be modified over time and will adapt to the changing economy. Companies will pay more tax, individuals will pay less tax. I'd imagine a tax bracket structure where you actually recieve money at the lower end, and as your earnings increase you pay money.

No one is paying tax because people will be out of work. Why do you think Elon is talking about UBI? Its because there are not enough jobs and so people get a handout or they starve. Its just social security by a different name on mass. What you or Elon have failed to explain is where all this money comes from? Andrew Yang was talking about this in the 2020 US election. The cost of $1000 a month UBI to just every adult in the US would be $3.1 trillion. If you make it every person that it $4 trillion. No one is living on $1000 a month though. That just keeps you out of poverty, maybe.

How can you be this naive? You seem to think life is going to be great, we will all only need to work 2 days a week but everything will be cheap and so we'll have this incredible work life balance. Utopia awaits! Kind of wish I was this naive, life must seem so simple with the likes of Elon looking out for us

Life improved with the industrial revolution because the economies grew and there was work. Then automation kicked in or those jobs went to cheaper markets abroad and people lost those jobs but white collar and service industry jobs took over. The problem is AI replaces those jobs. So where are these millions of new jobs coming from and remember these have to be jobs that AI can't do better.

Yeah I mean, it's more rocket man bad stuff, I'm just not interested.

No you just like to throw out what you think is an insult about envy and jealousy. You talk about those a lot. I wonder if its projection. And comparing Elon to Trump is something you are doing.

 

[unwashed potato!]

No you just like to throw out what you think is an insult about envy and jealousy. You talk about those a lot. I wonder if its projection. And comparing Elon to Trump is something you are doing

Projection and confession.

He values it so highly, but doesn't have it. And he has to see users like you OK about that. Must drive him nuts.

I often get Joe rogan/Elon clips on YouTube. It's a great place to find some of Elon's style of genius.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Roar, you don't need to tell us how 100 million people watched the joe/Elon podcast, so therefore Elon is a smart genius and can't make mistakes with twitter.

 

[Penfold101]

I often get Joe rogan/Elon clips on YouTube. It's a great place to find some of Elon's style of genius.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Because physics isn't a thing apparently.

 

[Roar87]

Ah so human labour is the resource that will be plentiful. You know what that says to me? That there will be way more humans than jobs and so labour will be dirt cheap. Great news for the captains of industry. Not great news for the actual people doing the work. So we are talking about mass unemployment.

We're also talking about mass productivity, so being unemployed isn't really that big of a deal.

I can't see robots shoeing horses anytime soon Roar. It's not those jobs that will be under threat first, its the white collar workers that AI will destroy. No human can compete in that area with an AI. You seem to think its going to be factory automation, we already have that, its replacing whole buildings of people in offices. You work at a bank right? Those jobs will be done. What are you going to retrain as that AI can't do better? A blacksmith is an option, I know a couple though and trust me its back breaking work.

I was using Blacksmithing as an analogy to what happened when the automobile was invented. Blacksmiths became a defunct/niche profession over night, yet the world economy adapted and we all became much better off. Also, AI will help with factory automation because it will drive efficiencies through better factory design, AI will design new ways of automating production - mass production of complex products is incredibly difficult, AI will improve this greatly.

I work for a bank in Resource planning, I'd probably use AI with my work, but ultimately you'd want someone to look at the inputs and outputs. I have no issue with retraining though.

No one is paying tax because people will be out of work.

Then you raise corporation tax.

Why do you think Elon is talking about UBI? Its because there are not enough jobs and so people get a handout or they starve.

No one is going to starve, the economy will adapt. People didn't starve when we invented the combine harvester and stopped using a horse and plow. They took different jobs. The entertainment and recreation sector will grow, people will be creative, that's what humans are good at.

Its just social security by a different name on mass. What you or Elon have failed to explain is where all this money comes from? Andrew Yang was talking about this in the 2020 US election. The cost of $1000 a month UBI to just every adult in the US would be $3.1 trillion. If you make it every person that it $4 trillion. No one is living on $1000 a month though. That just keeps you out of poverty, maybe.

Money doesn't matter, it's just numbers, if a loaf of bread costs 5p and an iPhone costs £50, then your £1000 a month will go quite far.

How can you be this naive? You seem to think life is going to be great, we will all only need to work 2 days a week but everything will be cheap and so we'll have this incredible work life balance. Utopia awaits! Kind of wish I was this naive, life must seem so simple with the likes of Elon looking out for us

It's not just Elon Musk though, as has been explained, every major tech company is currently developing their own AI. Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Meta, X, are all developing AI. That's ignoring what the Chinese, American, and British, etc governments are probably also doing behind closed doors.

Life improved with the industrial revolution because the economies grew and there was work. Then automation kicked in or those jobs went to cheaper markets abroad and people lost those jobs but white collar and service industry jobs took over. The problem is AI replaces those jobs. So where are these millions of new jobs coming from and remember these have to be jobs that AI can't do better.

The market will drive where the jobs come from. Whatever people need and want that AI can't do, then people will fill the gaps by being innovative and creative. I mean content creator is an obvious one, the entertainment sector, childcare, there will be all manner of jobs that people will be doing with the assistance of AI. People will work less and have more.

No you just like to throw out what you think is an insult about envy and jealousy. You talk about those a lot. I wonder if its projection. And comparing Elon to Trump is something you are doing.

No idea why you're even mentioning Trump, embarrassing but predictable at this point, TDS.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

It's the only reason UBI is in the conversation and they would work out to the penny the amount that will essentially stop the peasants revolting

Initially revolting.

I read a study many years ago, from the oil industry. It was future predictions (it was late 80s iirc) and one of the predictions was that wealth would continue to to be gathered and fall into the hands of the minority (sound familiar?)

As such the rich would end up in mega wealth communities completely cut off from the normals. The result would be something akin to medieval Britain in the difference between the few and the vast majority.

The rich would own and maintain the majority of the resources, and by the point it was truly in place they would have a massive tech advantage and any attempt to rise up would be totally devastating for the majority.

I am not sure its a vision I fully embrace seeing us move to. However the resources in the hands of a few sounds just as, if not more likely with AI.
Unless we moved to some Communist utopia I struggle to see how resources would end up cheap for the masses.
You would basically from what I can see 100% need a heavy socialist government as the absolute minimum.
Remove all the wealth hoarding from the Billionaires etc.

 

[Roar87]

Initially revolting.

I read a study many years ago, from the oil industry. It was future predictions (it was late 80s iirc) and one of the predictions was that wealth would continue to to be gathered and fall into the hands of the minority (sound familiar?)

As such the rich would end up in mega wealth communities completely cut off from the normals. The result would be something akin to medieval Britain in the difference between the few and the vast majority.

The rich would own and maintain the majority of the resources, and by the point it was truly in place they would have a massive tech advantage and any attempt to rise up would be totally devastating for the majority.

I am not sure its a vision I fully embrace seeing us move to. However the resources in the hands of a few sounds just as, if not more likely with AI.
Unless we moved to some Communist utopia I struggle to see how resources would end up cheap for the masses.
You would basically from what I can see 100% need a heavy socialist government as the absolute minimum.
Remove all the wealth hoarding from the Billionaires etc.

You can't hoard wealth, there isn't a finite amount of it, new wealth is created by people creating something someone else wants. If there were 10 pound coins in the world and someone had them all, we'd just create our own coins and trade with each other using those. Wealth is fairly abstract, there isn't a set amount of it. Elon Musk having billions really has no affect on anyone else.