The ongoing Elon Twitter saga: "insert demographic" melts down

[VincentHanna]

That isn't how free speech works though, Elon Musk has the most followers so his speech is also unfairly promoted, is everyone else less free than him?

Not to mention the algorithm promoting his words to people that don't follow him.

Every morning I woke up there would be a notification on my phone regarding a tweet he made, and I was not a follower. Eventually I just deleted the X app.

 

[unwashed potato!]

Hopefully Congress will grow some balls and force the break up of companies like Meta and Alphabet

Interesting that you've said that. Can I ask why you feel they need to be broken up? Meta in particular doesn't feel particularly large and market dominating.

Google for sure. They do so much and have a lot of control, however I do question how much is due to them already being able to have the monopoly, or just that they have made the best and people have chose a Google option.

For instance with Android, you can have alternative app stores, but people want Googles version. You can have alternative apps to every google app, but people want Googles. Can't you even get the play store working on windows devices? It feels fairly open, Google appear to me to have found that line between promoting their own, while allowing others to not draw attention to their dominance, which users wilfully give due to the benefits going everything Google gives.

Apple on the other hand forces you to be totally apple from start to finish at times.

 

[Pottsey]

Yes, it's more successful, it no longer censors legitimate views. As a user I couldn't care less what Twitters revenue or app usage is, why would that matter to me? I care that it's a fair place that people can use to freely exchange views. I know you don't like that, you would much prefer that we had the CNN/MSNBC world view on repeat where ever we look. Fortunately Elon Musk has the finances to run in the way he wishes, long term I'm sure he'll make it more successful, everywhere else will just be beholden to the standards of Disneys HR department.

That's the problem its no longer a fair place to share views or free speech due to Musk. Its turned into a Musk promotion speech area and if you don't fit into what he likes you get censored or demoted so no one sees your posts. My feed is no longer full of who I want to see its full of what Musk wants to promote as he overrides free speech and makes what he wants to see appear and disappear. An example it wasnt that long that a United Auto Workers union went on strike and Musk didn’t like that so he removed there verification and which changes the algorithms so there posts do not appear. How's that free speech? That's not free speech. Worse Musk had that special algorithm written so he can override what was the freely shared views we used to have and promote his own views in place. Before Musk took over there was true free speech. Now the core algorithm have been changed so Twitter prioritises Musk views and subjects for everyone and deprioritises the things Musk does not like which is anti free speech.

I don't like the idea of a single person who has in recent years shown to be getting more unstable, also being the person in charge of what we can and cannot see.

I am not convinced Musk is going to make Twitter successful as he is against free speech at his core and against the positive life blood of what made Twitter so good. Almost every change Musk had made to Twitter has been negative and effected its users in a negative way. That's why there has been the massive drop off in users and drop off in engagement. I manage social media across a large organisation and we have all but abandoned Twitter due to Musk actions and not just us but at least but I estimate 10,000's of other organisation in the UK as well. Twitter has been stripped from many website not because we want to, because Twitter is no longer seen as free speech and no longer useful to our customers who no longer want to engage with Twitter along with the negative changes Musk has made.

At this point the standards of Disney HR is better then Musk standards. I used to like Musk but he has gone rather loopy in the past few years. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago or even 3 years ago. Loosely speaking Musk reminds me of Trump. I was never a fan of Trump but he used to be articulate and intelligent in his younger years. It was only in the recent years Trump went loopy and lost his articulate way of speaking. Musk seems to be at the start of the same process that Trump his more then a few years down.

 

[Greebo]

The X rules: safety, privacy, authenticity, and more

Understand the limitations on the type of content and behavior that we allow, to ensure free and safe conversation.

help.twitter.com

What are these extremist views that you see promoted? Twitter does have rules around speech, mostly I'm referring to legitimate political views.

Not sure Kate Hopkins and Tommy Robinson have "legitimate political views" but I am glad to see them back for my daily laugh especially Kate with her rants.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

The X rules: safety, privacy, authenticity, and more

Understand the limitations on the type of content and behavior that we allow, to ensure free and safe conversation.

help.twitter.com

What are these extremist views that you see promoted? Twitter does have rules around speech, mostly I'm referring to legitimate political views.

Oh don't be ridiculous. There is more extremists speech on there than there was before Elon owned it, there is loads of child porn still on there and it also has rules on child porn I believe. And no I'm not going to find you child porn either.

 

[Roar87]

That's the problem its no longer a fair place to share views or free speech due to Musk. Its turned into a Musk promotion speech area and if you don't fit into what he likes you get censored or demoted so no one sees your posts. My feed is no longer full of who I want to see its full of what Musk wants to promote as he overrides free speech and makes what he wants to see appear and disappear. An example it wasnt that long that a United Auto Workers union went on strike and Musk didn’t like that so he removed there verification and which changes the algorithms so there posts do not appear. How's that free speech? That's not free speech. Worse Musk had that special algorithm written so he can override what was the freely shared views we used to have and promote his own views in place. Before Musk took over there was true free speech. Now the core algorithm have been changed so Twitter prioritises Musk views and subjects for everyone and deprioritises the things Musk does not like which is anti free speech.

That isn't an example of it though, we already discussed this in the thread, they changed their profile picture which they also confirmed resulting in them briefly losing their verified status. It was nothing Elon Musk did. The Twitter algorithm was released to the public and made open source, do you have any evidence for thinking it prioritises his views? This is borderline conspiracy theory.

I don't like the idea of a single person who has in recent years shown to be getting more unstable, also being the person in charge of what we can and cannot see.

Reported as unstable because he bought Twitter. US government really dislikes having it's internet powers taken away.

I am not convinced Musk is going to make Twitter successful as he is against free speech at his core and against the positive life blood of what made Twitter so good. Almost every change Musk had made to Twitter has been negative and effected its users in a negative way. That's why there has been the massive drop off in users and drop off in engagement. I manage social media across a large organisation and we have all but abandoned Twitter due to Musk actions and not just us but at least but I estimate 10,000's of other organisation in the UK as well. Twitter has been stripped from many website not because we want to, because Twitter is no longer seen as free speech and no longer useful to our customers who no longer want to engage with Twitter along with the negative changes Musk has made.

I think you've been a victim to the hysterical anti-Musk media we've seen, it was the same reporting we got around Donald Trump. Anything that vaguely resembled a negative story was front page on the BBC. My favourite is the reporting around Neuralink, something like "ELON MUSK WANTS TO INSERT CHIP INTO YOUR BRAIN", where as it's literally scientists working at Neuralink wanting to move to voluntary human trials and probably very little to do with Elon Musk himself.

At this point the standards of Disney HR is better then Musk standards. I used to like Musk but he has gone rather loopy in the past few years. I wouldn't have said that 5 years ago or even 3 years ago. Loosely speaking Musk reminds me of Trump. I was never a fan of Trump but he used to be articulate and intelligent in his younger years. It was only in the recent years Trump went loopy and lost his articulate way of speaking. Musk seems to be at the start of the same process that Trump his more then a few years down.

Yeah, as above.

Oh don't be ridiculous. There is more extremists speech on there than there was before Elon owned it, there is loads of child porn still on there and it also has rules on child porn I believe. And no I'm not going to find you child porn either.

Surely you can find a couple of examples of extremist speech though?

Not sure Kate Hopkins and Tommy Robinson have "legitimate political views" but I am glad to see them back for my daily laugh especially Kate with her rants.

Of course they do.

 

[unwashed potato!]

 

[VincentHanna]

Might want to google that

Flint schools have clean water for first time in years after $480K Elon Musk donation

The Elon Musk Foundation has been working on the project since 2018

www.independent.co.uk

Though he didn't fix it "in any house" - just the schools

 

[unwashed potato!]

Though he didn't fix it "in any house" - just the schools

i'm confident that the point of that tweet still stands.

Elon's tweet made sure it was clear what his supposed intentions were

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Surely you can find a couple of examples of extremist speech though?

I don't need to. Twitter CEO has written to EU about extremism on Twitter and how they are going to remove some of it like Hamas accounts due to EU legislation. So Twitter is fully aware of it and is only removing it due to being regulated, something you don't think governments should do I might add.

 

[Roar87]

I don't need to. Twitter CEO has written to EU about extremism on Twitter and how they are going to remove some of it like Hamas accounts due to EU legislation. So Twitter is fully aware of it and is only removing it due to being regulated, something you don't think governments should do I might add.

The EU basically did the exact same thing you did, just make some vague unfounded accusation of extremism without any actual evidence. The new Twitter CEO is making it look like something is being done to appease them a bit, but in reality there's very little on Twitter that would be considered "extreme", i.e. death threats, calls to action, overt racism - the main reason being is that people who do those things get banned.

Since you're literally unable to provide a single example of extremist views, we'll just add it to the consistent misinformation being spread.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

The EU basically did the exact same thing you did, just make some vague unfounded accusation of extremism without any actual evidence. The new Twitter CEO is making it look like something is being done to appease them a bit, but in reality there's very little on Twitter that would be considered "extreme", i.e. death threats, calls to action, overt racism - the main reason being is that people who do those things get banned.

Since you're literally unable to provide a single example of extremist views, we'll just add it to the consistent misinformation being spread.

Grow up. Is this the same misinformation you accused me of the other day in the Tate thread? How did that work out for you? Not well.

Why would the CEO say they are going to do something about something you say doesn't exist? Again we see why you wouldn't do well running anything.

 

[Roar87]

Grow up. Is this the same misinformation you accused me of the other day in the Tate thread? How did that work out for you? Not well.

Why would the CEO say they are going to do something about something you say doesn't exist? Again we see why you wouldn't do well running anything.

You've stated there's a lot of extremism on Twitter, so just find an example for us. It won't go away by saying things like "grow up" because it's plainly BS, frankly.

The CEO of Twitter has to put on a front for the EU so they're viewed as being compliant and cooperative, all the social media companies have said they're doing things and hiring extra people blah blah, the people at the EU simply have to justify their ridiculous salaries so they need to be seen "doing things".

 

[unwashed potato!]

During Musk’s tenure, hate speech towards minority communities increased, according to the CCDH. Reports of harassment went up and extremist content spiked, according to the Anti-Defamation League. And Covid-19 misinformation rose, according to Media Matters.

 

[Pottsey]

“Reported as unstable because he bought Twitter. US government really dislikes having it's internet powers taken away.”

What are you on about? I called him getting more unstable because of his actions and interviews that I have seen him directly. Not because of anything the US government dislikes.

“I think you've been a victim to the hysterical anti-Musk media we've seen, it was the same reporting we got around Donald Trump. Anything that vaguely resembled a negative story was front page on the BBC. My favourite is the reporting around Neuralink, something like "ELON MUSK WANTS TO INSERT CHIP INTO YOUR BRAIN", where as it's literally scientists working at Neuralink wanting to move to voluntary human trials and probably very little to do with Elon Musk himself.”

Nope not the case even remotely. Got nothing to do with the anti-musk media. Same for all my other quotes you put down to anti-musk media it has nothing to do with that.

“ It was nothing Elon Musk did. The Twitter algorithm was released to the public and made open source, do you have any evidence for thinking it prioritises his views? This is borderline conspiracy theory.”

The engineer who made the changes reported it, Musk made comment about it when the change was done and everyone has seen the end results and effect which has been mentioned in this thread not only time and time again but recently. You do see all the people in this thread saying things like

“Not to mention the algorithm promoting his words to people that don't follow him.
Every morning I woke up there would be a notification on my phone regarding a tweet he made, and I was not a follower. Eventually I just deleted the X app.”

They are not making that up, it is directly related to Feb 2023 when Musk had the engineers changed the algorithm to increase his post weighting by a factor of 1000. Pushing out what Musk doesn’t want to see and pushing in what he wants to see more off. Not only for himself but all users. Completely against free speech.

You call it a borderline conspiracy theory but not only has everyone seen the end result its directly there in the source code that was leaked online. As one exmple.

The source code and algorithm favours the far right leaning politics Musk prefers and pushes aside everything else. On top of that it looks like Musk’s own posts have an extra weighting of a factor of 1000 pushing them into places they don’t belong and pushing out the free speech of other users who are downgraded to make room for Musk.
Furthermore the algorithm was dividing people into Republicans and Democrats and then pushing a Republican agenda. How is that free speech?

“I think you've been a victim to the hysterical anti-Musk media we've seen, it was the same reporting we got around Donald Trump. “

Well I am telling you that as someone who works in social media that my organisation and many like us have dropped Twitter not because of any anti-musk media we have seen. But directly due to the negative changes Musk has implanted in Twitter. It got so bad the web developers we use had to contact all their client about removing Twitter integration due to Musk changes. Of which with this web developer overwhelming almost every single client choose to remove Twitter from the business/organisation website due to the changes Musk made. In fact the website I helped launch just last week started off with Twitter integrated into the front page at the start of the project and by the time the site went live last week Twitter was completely 100% removed from the website. I am seeing this time and time again.

You can try to write this off as anti-musk media hysterics but its what I am seeing on mass in social media from a business/organisation point of view.

As for accounts you say signing up is a minor thing but that is not what the metrics show. The vast majority of end users who would otherwise have clicked on a business/organisation Twitter feed and would have interacted with the product would instead be greeted with a sign in in page now. On seeing a sign in page the majority would just walk away where in the past they would have interacted with the business/organisation. This is the life blood of Twitter and Musk is killing that. It might be simple to sign up but the metrics are saying the majority of people don’t sign up and instead stop interacting. This is the very life blood of Twitter that is being damaged. This is why revenue; Twitter use and adverts income have plummeted and unbelievable amount.

 

[StriderX]

The moment I could no longer read a chain of posts was the moment twitter lost all purpose for me (not that it had much to begin with because social media is *******, degenerate garbage).

 

[Jono8]

The moment I could no longer read a chain of posts was the moment twitter lost all purpose for me (not that it had much to begin with because social media is *******, degenerate garbage).

Yeh. I mean it is barely functional if you don't have an account now...and **** him if he thinks im going to make an account.

Massively shortsighted move. Imagine how much more advert reach and general use there is on a social media site that doesn't require you to have an account! I used to browse twitter threads all the time, and use it to search for latest news etc.

 

[unwashed potato!]

The moment I could no longer read a chain of posts was the moment twitter lost all purpose for me (not that it had much to begin with because social media is *******, degenerate garbage).

yeah it's so sad.

before i'd click a post, perhaps read some comments and at that point, i may feel the desire to engage.

now i don't even click the posts on this forum as there's no benefit. it doesn't give any extras, in fact it is worse as i'm presented with a login screen.

 

[Werewolf]

What are you on about? I called him getting more unstable because of his actions and interviews that I have seen him directly. Not because of anything the US government dislikes.



Nope not the case even remotely. Got nothing to do with the anti-musk media. Same for all my other quotes you put down to anti-musk media it has nothing to do with that.



The engineer who made the changes reported it, Musk made comment about it when the change was done and everyone has seen the end results and effect which has been mentioned in this thread not only time and time again but recently. You do see all the people in this thread saying things like

“Not to mention the algorithm promoting his words to people that don't follow him.
Every morning I woke up there would be a notification on my phone regarding a tweet he made, and I was not a follower. Eventually I just deleted the X app.”

They are not making that up, it is directly related to Feb 2023 when Musk had the engineers changed the algorithm to increase his post weighting by a factor of 1000. Pushing out what Musk doesn’t want to see and pushing in what he wants to see more off. Not only for himself but all users. Completely against free speech.

You call it a borderline conspiracy theory but not only has everyone seen the end result its directly there in the source code that was leaked online. As one exmple.

The source code and algorithm favours the far right leaning politics Musk prefers and pushes aside everything else. On top of that it looks like Musk’s own posts have an extra weighting of a factor of 1000 pushing them into places they don’t belong and pushing out the free speech of other users who are downgraded to make room for Musk.
Furthermore the algorithm was dividing people into Republicans and Democrats and then pushing a Republican agenda. How is that free speech?



Well I am telling you that as someone who works in social media that my organisation and many like us have dropped Twitter not because of any anti-musk media we have seen. But directly due to the negative changes Musk has implanted in Twitter. It got so bad the web developers we use had to contact all their client about removing Twitter integration due to Musk changes. Of which with this web developer overwhelming almost every single client choose to remove Twitter from the business/organisation website due to the changes Musk made. In fact the website I helped launch just last week started off with Twitter integrated into the front page at the start of the project and by the time the site went live last week Twitter was completely 100% removed from the website. I am seeing this time and time again.

You can try to write this off as anti-musk media hysterics but its what I am seeing on mass in social media from a business/organisation point of view.

As for accounts you say signing up is a minor thing but that is not what the metrics show. The vast majority of end users who would otherwise have clicked on a business/organisation Twitter feed and would have interacted with the product would instead be greeted with a sign in in page now. On seeing a sign in page the majority would just walk away where in the past they would have interacted with the business/organisation. This is the life blood of Twitter and Musk is killing that. It might be simple to sign up but the metrics are saying the majority of people don’t sign up and instead stop interacting. This is the very life blood of Twitter that is being damaged. This is why revenue; Twitter use and adverts income have plummeted and unbelievable amount.

So much this.

If there is a site that pops up in my searches that looks like it might have something of interest i'm likely to click it, if it requires me to sign up to just read a page I'm "noping" out of there as fast as I can hit the back button.
I don't think I'm at all unusual in not wanting to sign up for every random page or site on the internet to read a single item, and one of the things twitter used to be great for was the fact you could click a link, get a tweet and read it quickly (whilst being served an advert) then if it was a company's tweet potentially click through to their site, which meant Twitter got an ad view and the company got someone going to their specific page.

As it stands now I know i'm not getting stuff from half the companies and individuals I signed up to twitter to keep track of because their stuff is buried, so I'm tending to go direct to their sites when they've got one which means less time spent on twitter.
And it feels like most of the individuals I follow on twitter are only maintaining their accounts now because they've not got one on the other apps yet (several have already stated they're only cross posting to twitter from their new "main" for important stuff, others that they're effectively only using twitter until a current contract that requires they do so for promotional reasons runs out).

 

[unwashed potato!]

If there is a site that pops up in my searches that looks like it might have something of interest i'm likely to click it, if it requires me to sign up to just read a page I'm "noping" out of there as fast as I can hit the back button

Pinterest is a perfect example of this. I purposefully avoid images to that site due to this.