The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

Maundie · 8 May 2012 at 17:44

Swordfish said:
Care to back that up with facts?

I suppose the facts would be the amount of tickets sold at grounds, I take it every ground in the SPL gets 30k+ every game and when you have millions around the world watching Brechin vs Aberdeen you don't need a world wide brand like Rangers in your league.

I don't watch the SPL and have no affiliation to any team but as a Liverpool fan the last thing I want is Everton to get relegated or god forbid go bust, love the derbies as it make life interesting.

Yes Rangers should get punished (very heavily as well I may add) but to wish them to 'not be saved' and go into administration is very poor form from some people.

Metalface Mark · 8 May 2012 at 17:44

afraser2k · 8 May 2012 at 17:45

Maundie said:
Oh rite so one of the teams that makes the SPL more attractive (not to me as I don't watch it) to TV companies/Other fans could no longer exsist is fantastic news.

Without Rangers I assume SPL would end up like the Welsh league with Celtic begging to be let into the English leagues because they couldn't get any money for TV rights as even less people would want to watch it.

I just find it a bit ridiculous that people want 1 of only 2 teams that people watch the SPL for to go bust. Makes it even more like a Scalextric track with 1 car, people will get bored very very quickly.

There is absolutely no chance of Celtic getting allowed into the English leagues even if Rangers go bust. The English FA and UEFA have said as much and it's just Celtic fans posting rumours on social networking sites that has brought this up again.

There will be less quality in the league but with the way things are at the moment would fans outside the Old Firm mind when their clubs might have a fairer chance of competing financially or someone outside the two having a chance of winning the league?

Jokester · 8 May 2012 at 17:46

They're already in adminstration. One way or another Rangers of some description will survive. What most fans wants is any new team having to start at the bottom and work up, otherwise it's just seen that Rangers cheated for 10+ years and then were able to walk away with minor penalty.

Metalface Mark · 8 May 2012 at 17:46

Maundie said:
Oh rite so one of the teams that makes the SPL more attractive (not to me as I don't watch it) to TV companies/Other fans could no longer exsist is fantastic news.

Without Rangers I assume SPL would end up like the Welsh league with Celtic begging to be let into the English leagues because they couldn't get any money for TV rights as even less people would want to watch it.

I just find it a bit ridiculous that people want 1 of only 2 teams that people watch the SPL for to go bust. Makes it even more like a Scalextric track with 1 car, people will get bored very very quickly.

Would make it a lot more interesting for fans of the other 11 teams in the league if there was no Rangers, its better if it was a one horse race rather than a two horse race for everyone else really. (not that i think it will happen, but one can dream).

Swordfish · 8 May 2012 at 17:47

Maundie said:
I take it every ground in the SPL gets 30k+

NO

Maundie said:
I don't watch the SPL and have no affiliation to any team.

Perhaps then some investigation before posting random statements would be in order.

Maundie said:
Yes Rangers should get punished (very heavily as well I may add) but to wish them to 'not be saved' and go into administration is very poor form from some people.

We agree at last

Maundie said:
but as a Liverpool fan

Explains a lot

(see my sig)

Metalface Mark · 8 May 2012 at 17:48

Maundie said:
I suppose the facts would be the amount of tickets sold at grounds, I take it every ground in the SPL gets 30k+ every game and when you have millions around the world watching Brechin vs Aberdeen you don't need a world wide brand like Rangers in your league.

I don't watch the SPL and have no affiliation to any team but as a Liverpool fan the last thing I want is Everton to get relegated or god forbid go bust, love the derbies as it make life interesting.

Yes Rangers should get punished (very heavily as well I may add) but to wish them to 'not be saved' and go into administration is very poor form from some people.

No offense, but Liverpool and Everton are like Hearts and Hibs or Dundee vs Dundee United up here now and if Rangers went out the league then that would let Dundee in, which would mean we would have two huge city derbies that would both be sellouts, if it expanded even more you would have Falkirk vs Dunfermline, St Mirren vs Morton and other great fixtures that would see the league thrive.

Like Swordfish I dont really want to see Rangers go out of business, just punished properly, in the event that they would walk back into the SPL without penalties, id rather see them be liquidated.

Kennysevenfold · 8 May 2012 at 18:21

Maundie said:
I just find it a bit ridiculous that people want 1 of only 2 teams that people watch the SPL for to go bust. Makes it even more like a Scalextric track with 1 car, people will get bored very very quickly.

Because they are sad individuals.

Got the Blue Knights Name all over it.

The hell with bill miller, yank stay home

We WONT be liquidated.

afraser2k · 8 May 2012 at 18:40

Kennysevenfold said:
Because they are sad individuals.

Got the Blue Knights Name all over it.

The hell with bill miller, yank stay home

We WONT be liquidated.

The three new bids on the table all favour a newco route, with one on a similar level to Bill Miller according to Sportsound. How can they be more favourable to Rangers fans than Miller's bid?

V F · 8 May 2012 at 19:08

Kennysevenfold said:
Because they are sad individuals.

Got the Blue Knights Name all over it.

The hell with bill miller, yank stay home

We WONT be liquidated.

How come you don't feel that way about the American players? seriously why do fans go on like this. Manchester United is owned by American's. Some football fans are so close minded.

spudbynight · 8 May 2012 at 19:18

Kennysevenfold said:
The hell with bill miller, yank stay home

This sort of attitude really engenders goodwill with fans of other clubs.

Rangers are completely screwed by the sound of it.

spudbynight · 8 May 2012 at 19:24

afraser2k said:
The three new bids on the table all favour a newco route, with one on a similar level to Bill Miller according to Sportsound. How can they be more favourable to Rangers fans than Miller's bid?

I think that an administrator accepting a bid in the region of £11million for the club will be breaking the law. They are legally obliged to act in the interests of the creditors and surely liquidation would raise much more than £11million.

steve1873 · 8 May 2012 at 21:52

Maundie said:
I suppose the facts would be the amount of tickets sold at grounds, I take it every ground in the SPL gets 30k+ every game and when you have millions around the world watching Brechin vs Aberdeen you don't need a world wide brand like Rangers in your league.

I don't watch the SPL and have no affiliation to any team but as a Liverpool fan the last thing I want is Everton to get relegated or god forbid go bust, love the derbies as it make life interesting.

Yes Rangers should get punished (very heavily as well I may add) but to wish them to 'not be saved' and go into administration is very poor form from some people.

Punished for what exactly? They have already been punished, hence we are in administration, had 10 points docked, a 12 month transfer embargo and a fine.

pingwing · 8 May 2012 at 21:57

steve1873 said:
Punished for what exactly? They have already been punished, hence we are in administration, had 10 points docked, a 12 month transfer embargo and a fine.

Getting around millions of tax (and fines) for 10 odd years worth of tax avoidance?? Pretty sure that needs a consistently big amount of punishment... (as in effect they have been playing in the league with no intent of being able to pay the players or the clubs they took them off)

Jokester · 8 May 2012 at 21:58

steve1873 said:
Punished for what exactly? They have already been punished, hence we are in administration, had 10 points docked, a 12 month transfer embargo and a fine.

Cheating HMRC out of NIC and income tax and using the cash to instead give themselves a massive commercial advantage over the competition for 10years. They have only been punished for going into administration (10points deduction) and for breaking SPL rules over the sale of the club to Whyte (12 month transfer embargo and fine).

steve1873 · 8 May 2012 at 22:04

Jokester said:
Cheating HMRC out of NIC and income tax and using the cash to instead give themselves a massive commercial advantage over the competition for 10years. They have only been punished for going into administration (10points deduction) and for breaking SPL rules over the sale of the club to Whyte (12 month transfer embargo and fine).

The income tax and nic were up to date as of May last year. The EBT's were perfectly legal.

Rangers may well have ended up in administration due to the EBT case anyway, however that they are in administration right now is solely down to 1 man who conned his way to buying the club using leveraged money and then decided not to pay ANY bills. Rangers are as much victims of Craig Whyte than any other party that he has cheated money out of.

Jokester · 8 May 2012 at 22:05

steve1873 said:
The income tax and nic were up to date as of May last year. The EBT's were perfectly legal.

EBT's were never legal to use as a method of payment.

steve1873 · 8 May 2012 at 22:10

pingwing said:
Getting around millions of tax (and fines) for 10 odd years worth of tax avoidance?? Pretty sure that needs a consistently big amount of punishment... (as in effect they have been playing in the league with no intent of being able to pay the players or the clubs they took them off)

Rangers owe clubs a little over £3million. Other clubs owe Rangers close to £4million - that is the way football, and most other businesses work.

10 odd years of tax avoidance??? You meant the tax avoidance that was, at the time perfectly legal and done based on the advice of professional tax advisors? That tax avoidance? As you may be aware EBT's were a perfectly legal loophole up until 2010. This loophole was closed and HMRC decided to retrospectively claim monies they feel are owed. I'd say getting hit with a potential £75 million liability is punishment enough, no?

Metalface Mark · 8 May 2012 at 22:12

Kennysevenfold said:
Because they are sad individuals.

Got the Blue Knights Name all over it.

The hell with bill miller, yank stay home

We WONT be liquidated.

Oooohhhhh yes you will

There is no one with enough money to make an CVA work.

The confusion over the EBT is Rangers fans saying "they were legal!", yes they were legal but they were not a way to avoid tax.

They legally lent money to players with no intention of ever getting it back, legally they could call these millions in which could probably save the club if they were actual loans.

Jokester · 8 May 2012 at 22:14

steve1873 said:
10 odd years of tax avoidance??? You meant the tax avoidance that was, at the time perfectly legal and done based on the advice of professional tax advisors? That tax avoidance? As you may be aware EBT's were a perfectly legal loophole up until 2010. This loophole was closed and HMRC decided to retrospectively claim monies they feel are owed. I'd say getting hit with a potential £75 million liability is punishment enough, no?

Using EBT to pay people were never ever legal. Let's cut the **** about this, using EBTs to pay people without being done for tax evasion relied entirely on them lying to HMRC as to the nature of the payment and HMRC not being able to prove it. The loophole that HMRC closed was the means of them getting away with it.