The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

Metalface Mark · 27 May 2012 at 20:09

steve1873 said:
Cheats eh? That is a hell of an allegation. I hope you are man enough to come on this thread and apologise if/ when Rangers are cleared of any wrongdoing!

Cheating eh! Celtic won the SPL in 2001, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007 & 2008. And Hearts finished above Rangers in 2nd place in 2006. What a sporting advantage must have been gained by using EBT's. :rollseyes:

Well, they already have been proven to have tried to con players out of clubs when they had no money, thats pretty much cheating there, signing Cousin and making a bid for Sandaza when they had no money to pay for them.

They have been penalised by the transfer ban for the likes of this.

Indeed, with the cheating going on Rangers and financial advantage they had they should never have lost any of them, and of course Im looking forward to the 2010 League Cup being handed over to the buddies

steve1873 · 27 May 2012 at 20:14

Metalface Mark said:
From what?

If you are talking about the big tax case, you must know that Rangers have already lost that and its being appealed?

Jokester said:
First Tier is when you appeal the intial HMRC decision, they've now been put to the Second Tier for their appeal of the appeal.

I would say both were statements of fact rather than voiced opinions, but whatever!

steve1873 · 27 May 2012 at 20:24

Metalface Mark said:
Well, they already have been proven to have tried to con players out of clubs when they had no money, thats pretty much cheating there, signing Cousin and making a bid for Sandaza when they had no money to pay for them.

They have been penalised by the transfer ban for the likes of this.

Indeed, with the cheating going on Rangers and financial advantage they had they should never have lost any of them, and of course Im looking forward to the 2010 League Cup being handed over to the buddies

The League Cup that your ***** wee club couldn't win on mertits against 9 men?

Was a good day right enough!

Rangers have been found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute THIS SEASON. How many trophies have Rangers won this season? Any wrong doing regarding any other season has het to be established, but you continue on yer high horse Mark.

There was no financial advantage. Rangers paid the same amount of money out whether players were paid or whether they paid money into the trust to be LOANED to the beneficiaries. Celtic have had a higher wage bill than Rangers for the entirety of the SPL. They are also in debt, in the form of soft loans from Dermot Desmond, so have also been spending outwith their means as have any other club with debt. Kilmarnock are nearly £10 million in debt. That is the equivalent o Rangers having a debt of well over £100 million on a debt to turnover basis. How are they going to trade theor way out of that?

Jokester · 27 May 2012 at 20:32

steve1873 said:
I would say both were statements of fact rather than voiced opinions, but whatever!

I did post a link to the government website backing that up by the way. Or are you denying that the case is at the STT?

steve1873 · 27 May 2012 at 20:50

Jokester said:
I did post a link to the government website backing that up by the way. Or are you denying that the case is at the STT?

No you didn't. You stated that Rangers case had been escalated to the second tier, then you posted a link outlining the procedural for the tribunal process. Hardly the same thing.

Yes, I am denying that since no reputable source has reported that.

Metalface Mark · 27 May 2012 at 20:59

steve1873 said:
The League Cup that your ***** wee club couldn't win on mertits against 9 men?

Was a good day right enough!

Rangers have been found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute THIS SEASON. How many trophies have Rangers won this season? Any wrong doing regarding any other season has het to be established, but you continue on yer high horse Mark.

There was no financial advantage. Rangers paid the same amount of money out whether players were paid or whether they paid money into the trust to be LOANED to the beneficiaries. Celtic have had a higher wage bill than Rangers for the entirety of the SPL. They are also in debt, in the form of soft loans from Dermot Desmond, so have also been spending outwith their means as have any other club with debt. Kilmarnock are nearly £10 million in debt. That is the equivalent o Rangers having a debt of well over £100 million on a debt to turnover basis. How are they going to trade theor way out of that?

There were many players that day on EBT's, which allowed Rangers to afford players they normally would not be able to.

Was good to hear Billy Dodds come out today though and admit that not only did he have an EBT, but Rangers deducted tax from it, I would hope this withholding of tax when deducted from players wages will really cause damage if its true, it would also show that even under Murray, Rangers were stealing from the taxman.

I dont care about Kilmarnock, while I dont want to see any team go out of business, if one of two clubs do as a result of their own mismanagement of money they it will be no one but their own fault.

Jokester · 27 May 2012 at 21:02

steve1873 said:
No you didn't. You stated that Rangers case had been escalated to the second tier, then you posted a link outlining the procedural for the tribunal process. Hardly the same thing.

Yes, I am denying that since no reputable source has reported that.

Ah right sorry, not sure how I got it into my head it was already STT. Should be announced any day now though.

Gav · 27 May 2012 at 21:19

Jokester said:
Ah right sorry, not sure how I got it into my head it was already STT. Should be announced any day now though.

Really? Do you have some kind of insider information or are you just making it up?

I would guess that the later is true..

Jokester · 27 May 2012 at 21:29

Gav said:
Really? Do you have some kind of insider information or are you just making it up?

I would guess that the later is true..

Huh?

Steve's right, it is just at the FTT stage. I guess I was getting confused with all the other tax cases that Rangers are involved in. The FTT results are due imminently apparently.

Gav · 27 May 2012 at 21:37

So all of your "are's" and "will's" are now becoming "might's" and "maybe's"

Seems to be a lot of this going on in this post.....

Jokester · 27 May 2012 at 21:39

Gav said:
So all of your "are's" and "will's" are now becoming "might's" and "maybe's"

Seems to be a lot of this going on in this post.....

Don't worry it won't go to STT

steve1873 · 27 May 2012 at 21:39

Metalface Mark said:
There were many players that day on EBT's, which allowed Rangers to afford players they normally would not be able to.

Was good to hear Billy Dodds come out today though and admit that not only did he have an EBT, but Rangers deducted tax from it, I would hope this withholding of tax when deducted from players wages will really cause damage if its true, it would also show that even under Murray, Rangers were stealing from the taxman.

I dont care about Kilmarnock, while I dont want to see any team go out of business, if one of two clubs do as a result of their own mismanagement of money they it will be no one but their own fault.

Hahahahahahahaha.... Ha...

And we only needed 9 of them to beat yiu. Admit it, when you were playing against the 9 men in 2010 (after EBT's were no longer being used may I add), you had that wee bit of excitement that you were going to see your team lift a major trophy. Didn't quite turn out that way thiugh did it?

They could afford them because they... Eh did afford them. They were playing for the club whilst our debt was coming down so I'd like to know how you can say they were unable to afford them. I've already explained that the money outgoing from the club was virtually the same as would have been had players earned the same comparitive wage minus the use of the offshore trust. The only difference is the employers national insurance contribution. Eh, that was the tax benefit of running the scheme which was advised to be legal and entirely legitimate. The real beneficiaries of the EBT's were the employees, hence the name of the scheme EMPLOYEE BENEFIT TRUST.

Metalface Mark · 27 May 2012 at 21:56

Ive already seen my club lift a major trophy, I enjoyed the day, despite losing

steve1873 · 27 May 2012 at 22:22

All joking and banter aside, I do have respect (varying levels) for most clubs. St. Mirren included.

But the level of Rangers hating in this thread and from within Scottish football, when the fundamental issues regarding Rangers administration and rule breaking were the works of 1 man, is incredible. The club which has provided more Scottish internationalists than any other club and which has single handedly carried Scotlands european co-efficient in recent years has been demonised to such an extent that supporters of other clubs would rather see their clubs damaged, than to see Rangers getting a fair chance of recovery.

Metalface Mark · 27 May 2012 at 22:53

Scotlands co-efficient is at an all time low, compare it to the 80's where we had clubs outside of the old firm winning and reaching european finals, we were better without the tv money which has ruined the game.

This is the last year that we have anything reasonable as a co-efficient, from next year on we drop to near enough the lowest possible, I dont think its fair to say Rangers have carried the co-efficient when no club has done anything at all since the final Rangers reached, including Rangers.

You might find it hard to believe but I do support the old firm in europe, they have been a big let down since the Manchester final though.

McMav · 28 May 2012 at 07:01

Jokester said:
Don't worry it won't go to STT

You are correct with this statement. It will either be bundled with the CVA or Rangers will be a Newco.

McMav · 28 May 2012 at 07:03

Metalface Mark said:
Scotlands co-efficient is at an all time low, compare it to the 80's where we had clubs outside of the old firm winning and reaching european finals, we were better without the tv money which has ruined the game.

This is the last year that we have anything reasonable as a co-efficient, from next year on we drop to near enough the lowest possible, I dont think its fair to say Rangers have carried the co-efficient when no club has done anything at all since the final Rangers reached, including Rangers.

You might find it hard to believe but I do support the old firm in europe, they have been a big let down since the Manchester final though.

The thing is its not money in SPL thats done the majority of the damage. You just need to look south to the EPL and Championship too see where a lot of the problems has arisen. Clubs in the spl unable to hold onto players because second tier English clubs can afford to pay more.

Metalface Mark · 28 May 2012 at 08:14

McMav said:
The thing is its not money in SPL thats done the majority of the damage. You just need to look south to the EPL and Championship too see where a lot of the problems has arisen. Clubs in the spl unable to hold onto players because second tier English clubs can afford to pay more.

The championship gets more money than the SPL.

afraser2k · 28 May 2012 at 09:40

So today is the day that many think is the CVA deadline to avoid liquidation due to the clubs running costs, going to be a tense day.

Various sources reporting Rangers likely to be able to play in the SPL without an SFA license. Might as well throw away the rulebook if true.

Metalface Mark · 28 May 2012 at 09:43

They will offer the CVA today by all accounts, I dont understand why Ticketus would agree to it if they plan on suing Whyte for the money, surely if they accept a pence in the pound they then cannot do that?