The Rangers Saga and Fallout Thread

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Metalface Mark said:
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/

“During a breakfast briefing with daily newspaper correspondents, it also emerged that Rangers director Dave King will not be permitted by the SFA to be an official at the Ibrox club post-administration as he was still serving on the board when they entered their current insolvency event under Whyte.

Which Former Directors of Rangers plc might be Disqualified as not “Fit and Proper”?

Every director and office bearer of Rangers going back to the 15th February 2007 falls foul of the 5-year pre-insolvency rule.

That list is as follows:-

Craig Whyte

Dave King

Andrew Ellis

Gary Withey

Phil Betts

John Greig

John McClelland

Martin Bain

Donald McIntyre

Alastair Johnston

Paul Murray !!!!!!!!!

Donald Muir

Michael McGill

James Wilson

Sir David Murray

Quite how is Mr Murray, who is at the head of the “Blue Knights” going to get round this issue?"
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Taken from the SPL thread....

Mr Murray was not a board member when Rangers went into insolvency. Also the fact that Rangers might have had side agreements on their contracts is not illegal and it requires an investigation to see if and only if they have breached the rules again this is not fact. I am defending the innocent until proven guilty policy which is one of the mainstays of our society. Show me a shred of evidence that they are guilty of breach of rules and I will then hold my hands up. Oh the glee that people have shown when Rangers might be killed off and now it looks like they might be saved how the haters are clutching at straws looking for any dirt they can find...

Interesting to note that the author writes this on 11th March 2012, yet he has gathered information relating to Mr King dating back to Feb 2011. What is his motivation for this dirt digging?

No less than 68 blogs about the Gers and 15 about them in administration. Having read some of them there's no questioning bias.
 
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Your not paranoid, everyone is out to get you.

Would you not rather people looked into the guys wanting to takeover your club via CVA than not at all which is what happened with Whyte?
 
jas72 said:
Mr Murray was not a board member when Rangers went into insolvency. Also the fact that Rangers might have had side agreements on their contracts is not illegal and it requires an investigation to see if and only if they have breached the rules again this is not fact. I am defending the innocent until proven guilty policy which is one of the mainstays of our society. Show me a shred of evidence that they are guilty of breach of rules and I will then hold my hands up. Oh the glee that people have shown when Rangers might be killed off and now it looks like they might be saved how the haters are clutching at straws looking for any dirt they can find...
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It's established fact that these "2nd" contracts existed, by Rangers own admission!

The first issue that Rangers face is whether these payments were in fact an illegal tax evasion scheme rather than a legal tax avoidance scheme that Rangers are arguing. This is what the so called big tax case is all about.

The second issue that they face is that these contracts were not registered with the SPL. This is a breach of the SPL rules regardless of the outcome of the tax case.

There is a fundamental issue with impartiality at the SPL due the number of current and past individuals who are associated with Rangers.
 
Jokester said:
It's established fact that these "2nd" contracts existed, by Rangers own admission!

The first issue that Rangers face is whether these payments were in fact an illegal tax evasion scheme rather than a legal tax avoidance scheme that Rangers are arguing. This is what the so called big tax case is all about.

The second issue that they face is that these contracts were not registered with the SPL. This is a breach of the SPL rules regardless of the outcome of the tax case.

There is a fundamental issue with impartiality at the SPL due the number of current and past individuals who are associated with Rangers.
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No it isn't ffs!!!

EBT's are/ were by their very nature non contractual payments so how can a 2nd contract exist? And they weren't "off the book" payments as has also been suggested. All payments into the EBT's made by the club were included in the club accounts.
 
steve1873 said:
No it isn't ffs!!!

EBT's are/ were by their very nature non contractual payments so how can a 2nd contract exist? And they weren't "off the book" payments as has also been suggested. All payments into the EBT's made by the club were included in the club accounts.
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HMRC certainly think different with the copies they have.
 
Jokester said:
HMRC certainly think different with the copies they have.
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Copies of what?

EBT's were a legal means of tax AVOIDANCE which is perfectly legal. HMRC claim that these were administered incorrectly meaning certain taxes are due, not that anything was hidden and not accounted for! If they were claiming anything was hidden it would not be a tribunal, it would be a criminal court case with the people responsible looking at serious jail time!
 
http://www.donssupporterstogether.com/dons-supporters-together-statement-on-rangers-situation/

Good statement by the Aberdeen fans which sums up how everyone is feeling really (other than the Rangers fans).

Fans will be well aware of the current financial problems suffered by Rangers FC in the last few weeks. DST consider it pertinent to offer their views on this matter.
DST’s stance on the matter is uncompromising. The sporting integrity of Scottish Football is critical. We want our club to take the moral high ground by insisting that all member clubs play by the rules, comply with the law of the land as well as the game, and fulfil their obligations to other clubs and to society as a whole. DST fully believes in these principles and is sure that all right minded supporters will feel likewise. We wish to send a clear message to the board and management of AFC that we will not condone any departure from these principles, and that they should not be party to any future arrangement which allows a club to renege on its legal and moral obligations.
Rangers led most of the top Scottish clubs into ruinous debt by their unsustainable overspending from the Souness years onwards, and the creation and structure of the SPL has institutionalised the unfair distribution of wealth within our game. Now is the time to challenge the OF’s stranglehold to ensure a more equitable league structure and format.
The OF need the rest of Scottish football much more than we need them. Without a league of opponents to compete with, they cannot survive. The media argument that the OF subsidise the other teams and keep them afloat is spurious. The reverse is in fact true, since they get a totally disproportionate share of the money in the game. This unfair subsidy must cease immediately.
This is watershed for Scottish football. DST believes that the supporters of AFC and supporters of every SPL club should now send a strong and clear message to their club’s directors that we expect and demand change to the structure of the game as a whole. It is in every club’s interest (including the OF) to level the financial playing field, and to have 2/3rd majority voting in the SPL.
Clubs must also find ways of improving the product on the park by increasing variety, competition and entertainment, thus providing better value for money.
DST will continue to monitor events and will be collecting comments from members soon.
 
steve1873 said:
Copies of what?

EBT's were a legal means of tax AVOIDANCE which is perfectly legal. HMRC claim that these were administered incorrectly meaning certain taxes are due, not that anything was hidden and not accounted for! If they were claiming anything was hidden it would not be a tribunal, it would be a criminal court case with the people responsible looking at serious jail time!
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Copies of the contract making it clear what the terms of payment were via the EBT, which is why HMRC are arguing that the payments they were receiving were in fact taxable pay.
 
DST’s stance on the matter is uncompromising. The sporting integrity of Scottish Football is critical. We want our club to take the moral high ground by insisting that all member clubs play by the rules, comply with the law of the land as well as the game, and fulfil their obligations to other clubs and to society as a whole. DST fully believes in these principles and is sure that all right minded supporters will feel likewise. We wish to send a clear message to the board and management of AFC that we will not condone any departure from these principles, and that they should not be party to any future arrangement which allows a club to renege on its legal and moral obligations.
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Good statement from the Dons Supporters there the Rangers supporters are also of the same opinion and take the same moral high ground regarding their and other clubs in the SPL's actions of course.

I'm quite sure the SFA/SPL knew about the EBTs they were offered to other scottish clubs at the same time, can't say that the SPL/SFA knew nothing about them, come on get real. This is just a mud slinging campaign and we all know who's behind it.
 
You can almost smell the desperation of some people on here at the prospect of Rangers being found guilty of some sort of infraction. As it stands, they have not been found guilty of a single charge, nor has the liability for the EBT case been decided and announced.
 
Good statement regarding sporting integrity from the DST eh! Remind me again if they released a similar statement when their club was saved from relegation on a technicality?
 
steve1873 said:
You can almost smell the desperation of some people on here at the prospect of Rangers being found guilty of some sort of infraction. As it stands, they have not been found guilty of a single charge, nor has the liability for the EBT case been decided and announced.
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The discussion has merely been what's been released in the media from various sources about Rangers' current situation. We know Rangers haven't been found guilty of anything yet only that they're in administration due to Whyte withholding PAYE/NI payments to HMRC.
 
steve1873 said:
Good statement regarding sporting integrity from the DST eh! Remind me again if they released a similar statement when their club was saved from relegation on a technicality?
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AFC just benefitted from the league rules as they stood at the time, they didn't break them to benefit.

steve1873 said:
There is no contract regarding the EBT's. They are by definition a non contractual "loan".
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It's only a "loan" if it's properly administered. From what the Rangers director said and what HMRC have in their posession it's clear these were contractual payments, that the SPL were not informed about.
 
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