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I want to see what happens with the original Doom 3 being ray traced and see if you can get away with no flashlight mod, game will probably end up even darker
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The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.
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I want to see what happens with the original Doom 3 being ray traced and see if you can get away with no flashlight mod, game will probably end up even darker
Realism!I want to see what happens with the original Doom 3 being ray traced and see if you can get away with no flashlight mod, game will probably end up even darker
Here's a screenshot of a realistic Skyrim dungeon:
Still 10 out of 10 to the cinematographer!
More seriously, I do hope that when full path raytracing becomes the norm (2030?) players not sitting in a basement with a HDR1200 screen and who don't have 20/20 vision get some options.
Game = entertainment.
Realistic near-black render = not my idea of entertainment.
Man of Honour
HL2 with path tracing now:
wccftech.com
Half-Life 2 Path Tracing Mod is Looking Utterly Spectactular; Screenshots and Videos Shared
A modder has been working on his a Half-Life 2 Path Tracing mod using the NVIDIA RTX Remix SDK, and the results are stellar.
wccftech.com
HL2 with path tracing now:
Half-Life 2 Path Tracing Mod is Looking Utterly Spectactular; Screenshots and Videos Shared
A modder has been working on his a Half-Life 2 Path Tracing mod using the NVIDIA RTX Remix SDK, and the results are stellar.
Nice. But won't get excited until it fully finished and out. Will definitely replay it when it is.
Your 4090 exploded? Lol
If we start seeing loads of the classics remixed with path tracing, 4090 it will have to be!
Ray tracing provides far more control over lighting etc. than what raster methods do so even if there are no light sources at all in say caves, they could brighten up the image to avoid this or it would make them consider changing up the design of such areas to include some kind of light sources to provide a good looking and somewhat natural looking image or rather just use a torch, flashlight etc. to light up the cave
On the whole, path tracing actually brightens the game world in cp I have found, only areas where it is darker is where there literally is little to no light:
Realism!
Here's a screenshot of a realistic Skyrim dungeon:
Still 10 out of 10 to the cinematographer!
More seriously, I do hope that when full path raytracing becomes the norm (2030?) players not sitting in a basement with a HDR1200 screen and who don't have 20/20 vision get some options.
Game = entertainment.
Realistic near-black render = not my idea of entertainment.
Ray tracing provides far more control over lighting etc. than what raster methods do so even if there are no light sources at all in say caves, they could brighten up the image to avoid this or it would make them consider changing up the design of such areas to include some kind of light sources to provide a good looking and somewhat natural looking image or rather just use a torch, flashlight etc. to light up the cave
On the whole, path tracing actually brightens the game world in cp I have found, only areas where it is darker is where there literally is little to no light:
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Brightens it up? It's ******* NEON
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Realism!
Here's a screenshot of a realistic Skyrim dungeon:
Still 10 out of 10 to the cinematographer!
More seriously, I do hope that when full path raytracing becomes the norm (2030?) players not sitting in a basement with a HDR1200 screen and who don't have 20/20 vision get some options.
Game = entertainment.
Realistic near-black render = not my idea of entertainment.
Cyberpunk has some rooms that are now super dark as well.
This happens because the game wasn't designed from the ground up for rayvtracing, those dark areas looked fine with all the raster light bleed before but once swapped to RT there isn't enough light sources to illuminate it. It's a common issue in RT games, many of them are built with raster first and then RT is injected later and the problem is that to fix this issue the game world needs to change - the way you design a game world with raster and rt is very different
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Caporegime
Some of you really don't get @KompuKare was going about in Dungeons. The Dungeons would have no light sources naturally anyway,hence it would be pitch black. But gamers would moan,so they have to add some sort of lighting effect even in a Dungeons deep underground. So you have these parts with no apparent lighting,having some faint light source or if the devs are lazy,already lit torches in a Dungeon which has not been entered for a 100 years!
So a pitch black Dungeon would be accurate - just look at the people investigating deep caverns. Unless you bring your own light source you are moving around by feel.
So a pitch black Dungeon would be accurate - just look at the people investigating deep caverns. Unless you bring your own light source you are moving around by feel.
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Yes, that was one of my points: for RT to really work requires a game which uses no raster lighting at all, or at the very least has during the dev progress been tested with both rendering methods for each area while adding the lights whether baked-in or RT.
So maybe once the next console gen is the sole target.
Any yes, @CAT-THE-FIFTH is correct: my other point was that realistic lighting in dungeons and similar (not just there) would make things pretty unplayable. I guess it does all depend on whether you like watching Aliens/X-Files/horror movies: super dark, very technically demanding cinematography but hard to watch (from a pure physical eyesight perspective). My plea is really, that - unlike the ENB mod authors - players are given a choice once the brave new world of RT-only is the norm: let those who value totally realistic lighting get what they want but those who prefer to be entertained by their games should also have options.
I had actually forgotten that Epic had given away some RT games. And I had Control and Shadow of the Tombraider, so did give them both a go (RTX 3050 can just about run those). Control looked mostly better (unlike most of the Cyberpunk 2077 footage), TB it was barely noticeable.
I think using full-path RT in Cyberpunk 2077 as a poster child for RT is flawed as the game seems to have plenty of issues. A photo-mode tech demo is closer to what it currently is, and can't see them re-doing all the lighting in the whole game just for RT. Plus, looking at the footage some of the reliance on bumbmapping just doesn't work with RT and since the full budget of Cyberpunk 2077 is close to $1/4 billion, I cannot see them going back over everywhere to fix that.
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Soldato
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Realism!
Here's a screenshot of a realistic Skyrim dungeon:
Still 10 out of 10 to the cinematographer!
More seriously, I do hope that when full path raytracing becomes the norm (2030?) players not sitting in a basement with a HDR1200 screen and who don't have 20/20 vision get some options.
Game = entertainment.
Realistic near-black render = not my idea of entertainment.
The Forest has those pitch black caves if there's no light source around. Works great, is the kind of feeling you don't have in other games.
BTW, game=entertainment true, but some find entertaining to play in a more realistic ways while others just want a quick, superficial pass through things. And that's fine as long as there are options to cater the experience for each player.
Easy fix: add a flashlight or an augmentation mode that allows to cast a small light or have... nightvision! Fits right into the story, but sadly they haven't think things through.
Skyrim has plenty of light sources scattered into the caves/tombs to justify the light that's there. Same as in movies. That's from cracks in the walls, torches, fire places of all sorts, mushrooms and so on.Some of you really don't get @KompuKare was going about in Dungeons. The Dungeons would have no light sources naturally anyway,hence it would be pitch black. But gamers would moan,so they have to add some sort of lighting effect even in a Dungeons deep underground. So you have these parts with no apparent lighting,having some faint light source or if the devs are lazy,already lit torches in a Dungeon which has not been entered for a 100 years!
So a pitch black Dungeon would be accurate - just look at the people investigating deep caverns. Unless you bring your own light source you are moving around by feel.
Then you have as a player the option of torches, fire from your hands (so you can have fire propagation and such, adding to the gameplay
), Magelight Spell which is basically a white sphere of light that follows you around. And why not, if you want to turn the arcade gameplay to 11, just add another spell that allows you even better to see in the dark. Won't effect the Stealth to much as well, since is RpG, the detection is based on artificial elements anyway.
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Some of you really don't get @KompuKare was going about in Dungeons. The Dungeons would have no light sources naturally anyway,hence it would be pitch black. But gamers would moan,so they have to add some sort of lighting effect even in a Dungeons deep underground. So you have these parts with no apparent lighting,having some faint light source or if the devs are lazy,already lit torches in a Dungeon which has not been entered for a 100 years!
So a pitch black Dungeon would be accurate - just look at the people investigating deep caverns. Unless you bring your own light source you are moving around by feel.
As noted in my post above, you can bypass this whilst having no "visible" light sources in the game world so it's really not that big of a deal e.g. metro ee developer example:
Lighting artists have said themselves, ray tracing provides so much control over the game world and how they look and most importantly interact than what raster methods have provided them.
As noted though, it should ideally be done when designing the game world first, which 4a enhanced have also stated hence why they scrapped their entire old workflow/game design to do metro ee.
Tomb raider is an awful title for RT, it was added in after the game came out and devs had already put in all the work to get raster baked in methods working and looking fantastic. If you want to see a good showcase of RT shadows, riftbreaker, cp 2077, witcher 3, metro ee, gta 5 (on consoles anyway)
Have messed around a fair bit in cp 2077 now and yes whilst there are some areas where path tracing doesn't look as good even if it is "accurate", in my experience this is maybe only 10% of the time/world, rest of the time, everything else looks better, not just in terms of initial "oh that looks nice" but the image feels grounded/natural now in a lot of areas where previously it felt/looked wrong imo.
The Forest has those pitch black caves if there's no light source around. Works great, is the kind of feeling you don't have in other games.
BTW, game=entertainment true, but some find entertaining to play in a more realistic ways while others just want a quick, superficial pass through things. And that's fine as long as there are options to cater the experience for each player.
Easy fix: add a flashlight or an augmentation mode that allows to cast a small light or have... nightvision! Fits right into the story, but sadly they haven't think things through.
Skyrim has plenty of light sources scattered into the caves/tombs to justify the light that's there. Same as in movies. That's from cracks in the walls, torches, fire places of all sorts, mushrooms and so on.
Then you have as a player the option of torches, fire from your hands (so you can have fire propagation and such, adding to the gameplay
Agree.
Always annoyed me that when entering dark areas like caves and it had this grey/brightened look and it made the flashlight/torch etc. pointless. That's where sons of the forest does it right when in the deep caves i.e. the torch, flares etc. are "necessary".
Caporegime
The Forest has those pitch black caves if there's no light source around. Works great, is the kind of feeling you don't have in other games.
BTW, game=entertainment true, but some find entertaining to play in a more realistic ways while others just want a quick, superficial pass through things. And that's fine as long as there are options to cater the experience for each player.
Easy fix: add a flashlight or an augmentation mode that allows to cast a small light or have... nightvision! Fits right into the story, but sadly they haven't think things through.
Skyrim has plenty of light sources scattered into the caves/tombs to justify the light that's there. Same as in movies. That's from cracks in the walls, torches, fire places of all sorts, mushrooms and so on.
Then you have as a player the option of torches, fire from your hands (so you can have fire propagation and such, adding to the gameplay
You can't bypass no light since there is no light sources. It's physics. This why they try and add the burning torches in Dungeons nobody has ever been in for decades! Or all the huge cracks or holes in ceiling which in theory should mean you could enter the Dungeon from above and bypass half the traps!As noted in my post above, you can bypass this whilst having no "visible" light sources in the game world so it's really not that big of a deal e.g. metro ee developer example:
Lighting artists have said themselves, ray tracing provides so much control over the game world and how they look and most importantly interact than what raster methods have provided them.
As noted though, it should ideally be done when designing the game world first, which 4a enhanced have also stated hence why they scrapped their entire old workflow/game design to do metro ee.
Tomb raider is an awful title for RT, it was added in after the game came out and devs had already put in all the work to get raster baked in methods working and looking fantastic. If you want to see a good showcase of RT shadows, riftbreaker, cp 2077, witcher 3, metro ee, gta 5 (on consoles anyway)
Have messed around a fair bit in cp 2077 now and yes whilst there are some areas where path tracing doesn't look as good even if it is "accurate", in my experience this is maybe only 10% of the time/world, rest of the time, everything else looks better, not just in terms of initial "oh that looks nice" but the image feels grounded/natural now in a lot of areas where previously it felt/looked wrong imo.
Agree.
Always annoyed me that when entering dark areas like caves and it had this grey/brightened look and it made the flashlight/torch etc. pointless. That's where sons of the forest does it right when in the deep caves i.e. the torch, flares etc. are "necessary".
Also it's just as easy to switch it off it rasterised games - a virtual point light source is added. Just disable it - the reality is most people will complain that it's too dark just like they did in Doom 3.So I will expect even the RT lighting will be subject to artistic whims too on how it is implemented. After all those super reflective floors which are superclean and totally even. No dirt, etc which would affect the reflections.
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See the example provided by 4a enhanced with the light bulb, in the final image, you don't see the "light bulb". You can have "invisible" light sources if you need to lighten an area up, it's not ideal but it will stop the "pitch black, can't see ****" complaints even though the game world should be designed in such a way to make it a more believable/immersive game world as opposed to just having a brightened/grey area, which looks worse imo but I play on oled so this is why it bothers me more as if an area is dark/pitch black, I want to see that reflected on my oled.
Also, it's not a simple flick on and off switch for raster, you have to take into consideration, shadows and everything else, which gets baked in.... hence the time difference (how long it took the devs to get the results shown in the final output) also shown in them screenshots and that is just for one scene/frame with one light source..... then imagine how much more time and effort would be required if you want to add in destruction to that scene.
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Caporegime
That is the point artistic effects or playability effects seem to trump realism in games. Just like modern games seem to have worse destruction physics than old games like Crysis or Red Faction, or worse fire and weather systems than FarCry 2. NPC AI is still using ancient models. Same dozen voice actors for a 100 NPCs. What you have is very pretty and static copy paste worlds with a lack of interaction.
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I imagine the reason we don't see that in the same way is largely down to project budgets and meeting stricter time frames nowadays as well as game design getting more complex when not only are game worlds getting larger, more open but also ensuring that they have life to them too and aren't just empty sandboxes i.e. sacrifices have to be made. That and since visual fidelity is higher now as opposed to red faction guerilla 2 days, destruction would just look worse and more out of place so better to just leave it out. This is where when ray tracing does become more main stream and devs have got a taste for what is possible, we will hopefully start to see better destruction and so on such as seen in the finals:
Caporegime
I don't think a lot of it has anything to do with lighting even if RT were to make that bit easier to implement,although it does make me wonder whether VRAM is a consideration too(needing to load a new set of textures for destroyed items).However, Just Cause 3 and 4 incorporated destruction physics into an openworld years ago. Merely the fact a door can't even be destroyed,or the fact that NPC AI models have not improved,or the fact the same 10 voice actors are used,etc seems more like an obsession over making games look graphically pretty,and the rest has been utterly ignored. Also massive open worlds existed decades ago,and processing power has increased in size by huge amounts,as has core count. Even Cyberpunk 2077 is a mediocre RPG experience and outside the main quests it's still an empty world populated by copy paste NPCs,and I really hope the Modding community can fix that. Games such as GTA V might be technically obsolete but they seem to do certain things far better than newer games.
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