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The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

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The really important thing is surely that if RT cannot be turned off, then this game cannot be a half-half game with raster lighting and RT lighting neither of which get the full attention they need.

As someone who doesn't sit in a cave with a HDR OLED set to max 1200 NIT, I do always worry about realistic lighting. I play games for fun, a realistic 95% black screen doesn't appeal to me!

This has been demonstrated so many times now, it's the same with where humbug keeps going on about how ray tracing will remove lighting artists etc. jobs etc. No, it simply provides far more options and tools/controls to them to be able to do an even better job. Just because a game may use RT does not automatically mean that it will be pitch black and if anything, it will force artists to keep this in mind i.e. a cave with no light sources at all should be pitch black, ok, how do we solve this? Maybe added some bioluminescence, provide the player with a flashlight or torch or maybe have cracks etc. in the cave to allow light from outside to leak through.

I have yet to see a game where RT has been used and caused this blacked out area, ok except maybe in cp 2077 with ray tracing overdrive in street alleys/corners but again this comes down to the design and can be solved i.e. add more light sources.

EDIT:

And in a good few areas, RT in fact helps lighten areas up:

jGTw4ZP.png


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That's just RT reflections and maybe shadows though, there is much more to RT to drastically improve a game's lighting system, like RTGI, ok Cyberpunk isn't a great example of that because they did the baked lighting system so well, but look at other games like Witcher Next Gen, the RTGI vs screen space GI in that is essentially night and day. Of course a huge fps penalty for the most part, but the visual difference is massive.

RT reflections and shadows are arguably the easiest things to apply RT to without having a massive fps cost applied to them. YOu can try it in Cyberpunk, max out RT and look at the fps, then turn off RT reflections and shadows and note the fps difference.

I did a quick test just now actualy and noticed something completely quirky, leaving RT reflections + RT shadows + RT sun shadows ON actually gets your more fps than leaving them off. Makes no sense but the numbers speak for themselves:

Ultra - Psycho RT + Psycho SSR // RT Shadows + RT Sun shadows + RT Reflections = ON


Ultra - Psycho RT + Psycho SSR // RT Shadows + RT Sun shadows + RT Reflections = OFF


Ultra - Path Traced + Psycho SSR



Not sure if this would apply to AMD too, but it seems on Nvidia at least, when just using all the normal RT settings (not PT), then you get more fps leaving all the RT options on :cry:

RT shadows and reflections can be extremely impactful on performance, it all comes down to where RT is being applied e.g. are rt shadows just being cast by the sun? Then hardly any hit but what about when you add rt shadows being cast from every light source i.e. street lamps, car headlights, overhead neon lighting and so on, then fps will start to crumble. RT GI is probably the toughest though but there are so many ways these RT effects can be held back.

AMDs main issue with RT performance is when there is too much happening, if settings are somewhat reduced then they are pretty good, which is why in amd sponsored titles, the RT effects are considerably held back e.g. fc 6 shadows only cast by sun and reflections on puddles with some metal surfaces.
 
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I've updated my post as Cyberpunk's current version is still bugged where you have to restart the game after changing GFX settings else the fps varies randomly! RT shadows and reflections are effectively zero impact on framerate in RT heavy games like in Cyberpunk.
 
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I think you are both wrong. Far from not looking good, but also far from photorealistic ;)

The scene with the red/pink neon lighting is incredible, in terms of lighting, it is definitely near photo realistic.




Nvidia article here too:

 
The scene with the red/pink neon lighting is incredible, in terms of lighting, it is definitely near photo realistic.




Nvidia article here too:


I have not watched it to be fair. But I have not seen anything in games just yet that I would call photorealistic. Unless your definition and mine are different somehow :cry:
 
I have not watched it to be fair. But I have not seen anything in games just yet that I would call photorealistic. Unless your definition and mine are different somehow :cry:

It's just the way the lighting behaves/works, looks exactly how you would expect it to in real life:

YjaI6gQ.png


It's again one of these things where you can't really get a proper sense of just how much more realistic ray tracing lighting and even shadows is until you play for yourself to see how the light interacts and bounces around the environment. No game comes anywhere close to walking down a street in night city and seeing how the light impacts the rest of the environment around it.
 
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It's just the way the lighting behaves/works, looks exactly how you would expect it to in real life:

YjaI6gQ.png


It's again one of these things where you can't really get a proper sense of just how much more realistic ray tracing lighting and even shadows is until you play for yourself to see how the light interacts and bounces around the environment. No game comes anywhere close to walking down a street in night city and seeing how the light impacts the rest of the environment around it.

I see. I thought you meant the image in general. As to me it is night and day that image is not real life :D
 
I'm 36 minutes into the DF roundtable and it is such a good insight into the whole tech (AI/ML/DLSS etc) vs native res debate that forums and reddit argue about day in day out.

What is absolutely clear at this point and hearing the conversation is that DLSS+Ray Reconstruction = Better than native res in essentially every measure. As Brian puts it, the AI is able to make better calls on what is good and efficient, than what the rastered native image is ever going to be capable of, and as such the end result is higher quality ray tracing, something which will never be possible at native res because the AI factor is missing there.

It's worth noting that you must have DLSS enabled for DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction to work, because it leverages the AI upscaler to replace hand tuned denoisers during this upscaling process.

And the fact that all RTX cards can use this opens up the tech to so many more gamers. I foresee DLSS injection being modded into a vast number of games from now on and just like FG can be injected, DLSS 3.5 will likely be injected as well as it's the AI itself that is replacing the in-game denoisers by analysing the frame data on the fly (as far as I am understanding it having watched this far).

The whole fake frames argument is moot at this point too, because all frames are technically "fake" in that sense as Pedro hints at.

We have entered new territory in rendering, and it's clear that DLSS is so far ahead that I'm not actually sure how the rest of the upscalers can compete for at least another couple of years.
 
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I see. I thought you meant the image in general. As to me it is night and day that image is not real life :D

Yeah maybe photo realistic wasn't the right word to use but in terms of lighting etc. it is very very very good ;) In a lot of games, you just wouldn't get that strong light/shading around the environment and then it becoming softer/dimmer on objects/environment further away.
 
I'm 36 minutes into the DF roundtable and it is such a good insight into the whole tech (AI/ML/DLSS etc) vs native res debate that forums and reddit argue about day in day out.

What is absolutely clear at this point and hearing the conversation is that DLSS+Ray Reconstruction = Better than native res in essentially every measure. As Brian puts it, the AI is able to make better calls on what is good and efficient, than what the rastered native image is ever going to be capable of, and as such the end result is higher quality ray tracing, something which will never be possible at native res because the AI factor is missing there.

It's worth noting that you must have DLSS enabled for DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction to work, because it leverages the AI upscaler to replace hand tuned denoisers during this upscaling process.

And the fact that all RTX cards can use this opens up the tech to so many more gamers. I foresee DLSS injection being modded into a vast number of games from now on and just like FG can be injected, DLSS 3.5 will likely be injected as well as it's the AI itself that is replacing the in-game denoisers by analysing the frame data on the fly (as far as I am understanding it having watched this far).

The whole fake frames argument is moot at this point too, because all frames are technically frame in that sense as Pedro hints at.

We have entered new territory in rendering, and it's clear that DLSS is so far ahead that I'm not actually sure how the rest of the upscalers can compete for at least another couple of years.

Lmao, I literally just watched that bit and posted about it too :D :cry:

Great video! :cool:

Loved how they were more open/direct here where as amds interview felt very scripted and didn't include any controversial view points.

I also love Bryan's answer to people throwing the term "fake frames, fake res around" and it being viewed as a negative thing but his answer was spot on "cp 2077 with fake frames frames etc. is more real than native raster", "raster effects are completely fake and made up", funny because it's true :cry:

Ultimately whether people like it or not, they are 100% right in that it is the complete package on offer here now and people shouldn't be worrying about the how, where or what they are doing but the end results, which speaks for itself as evidenced.
 
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  • Haha
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People being mad about FG being useful (edit:clarification) for 4xxx owners while providing everyone with the best RT graphics (3.5 ray reconstruction) no matter the RT gen card they have.

Seriously, you can say its somewhat deceptive marketing, but it’s still true.
 
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People being mad about FG being useful while providing everyone with the best RT graphics no matter the RT gen card they have.

Seriously, you can say its somewhat deceptive marketing, but it’s still true.
Frame generation is absolutely pointless when the starting framerate is so low. It takes an already horrendous amount of input lag and makes it worse (and Reflex only helps so much). The artifacts it creates are also much more noticeable at lower framerates, since each interpolated frame is on screen for longer. Nobody in their right mind will be playing at those settings on either card.
 
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Frame generation is absolutely pointless when the starting framerate is so low. It takes an already horrendous amount of input lag and makes it worse (and Reflex only helps so much). The artifacts it creates are also much more noticeable at lower framerates, since each interpolated frame is on screen for longer. Nobody in their right mind will be playing at those settings on either card.
Idk about that.

Tried Cp2077 pathtracing@native 3440x1440 initially when i got my 4090 with no DLSS and FG on and it was more than playable. Yeah latency could be felt a little but overall it was fine ( think fps was around 70-80 with no FG or so ? Base being 35-40). Can’t recall exactly.

Kinda like the example here with the 4070.
 
Personally I need to have a base of 60 fps, any less and frame generation latency was noticeable, didn't really notice any artifacts though.

But yeah, the chart above is silly as no one is going to be trying to max out the game and only use dlss quality, only a 4090 and maybe 4080 is capable of it.
 
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