The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

Nexus18 · 26 Sep 2023 at 16:16

Phantom liberty looks great. This is a lot darker than the rest of the main game so this is where you start to notice the quality not being as good (more so when not using HDR), well on oled it shows anyway but still, one way of playing is a better experience "overall" than the other. Also, I noticed that with HDR, this adds a bit of latency to geforce now so the extra latency isn't entirely just a frame gen thing.

Bill Turnip · 26 Sep 2023 at 21:53

I'd assume that the extra latency would be just due to hdr requiring a higher bit rate? I'm guessing turning RT off would have no impact on that, because as far as I understand the RT is done at the server end, and the hdr data is just included with the image transmission, requiring a higher bitrate to operate smoothly?

I don't recall HDR impacting performance on physical hardware in this way, but I may be mistaken.

Nexus18 · 26 Sep 2023 at 22:39

Bill Turnip said:
I'd assume that the extra latency would be just due to hdr requiring a higher bit rate? I'm guessing turning RT off would have no impact on that, because as far as I understand the RT is done at the server end, and the hdr data is just included with the image transmission, requiring a higher bitrate to operate smoothly?

I don't recall HDR impacting performance on physical hardware in this way, but I may be mistaken.

Possibly that yeah.

Turning RT off would reduce latency since the FPS would be much higher.

Dicehunter · 27 Sep 2023 at 07:05

The fact RT/PT is now done in real time is still unreal to me.

Nexus18 · 27 Sep 2023 at 08:22

Dicehunter said:
The fact RT/PT is now done in real time is still unreal to me.

Yup extremely impressive, hats off to nvidia and CDPR for making the impossible, possible :cool:

Deleted User 456458 · 27 Sep 2023 at 08:27

Looking forward to Alan Wake 2 as it’ll be Remedy’s second ray traced title after Control.

mingey · 27 Sep 2023 at 09:10

Ray reconstruction gives shinier puddles, but screws up textures on faces and introduces so many artifacts to the world, I can see how it will be great once sorted but at present the benefits don't outweigh the ghosting and reduction of texture quality, small items blur in and out and weapons exhibited some of the worst ghosting I've seen.
For me personally the shiny doesn't negate the overall image reduction.

Nexus18 · 27 Sep 2023 at 09:40

mingey said:
Ray reconstruction gives shinier puddles, but screws up textures on faces and introduces so many artifacts to the world, I can see how it will be great once sorted but at present the benefits don't outweigh the ghosting and reduction of texture quality, small items blur in and out and weapons exhibited some of the worst ghosting I've seen.
For me personally the shiny doesn't negate the overall image reduction.

Yup there are definitely some downsides, the blur is the most annoying, make sure you have motion blur and any sharpening turned off as this is much worse with them. I would say if you're using dlss quality, you could probably forgo ray reconstruction but if you're using lower presets of dlss especially performance, ray reconstruction is far superior in IQ. But alas, much like any new tech. it will hopefully improve even further and nvidia have proven themselves here with all the updates to upscaling and frame gen.

Kelt · 27 Sep 2023 at 12:57

mingey said:
Ray reconstruction gives shinier puddles, but screws up textures on faces and introduces so many artifacts to the world, I can see how it will be great once sorted but at present the benefits don't outweigh the ghosting and reduction of texture quality, small items blur in and out and weapons exhibited some of the worst ghosting I've seen.
For me personally the shiny doesn't negate the overall image reduction.

Yeh, I noticed that when I tried PT + RR, more the crappy faces.

Went back to normal RT and all is good.

Removed User 345456 · 27 Sep 2023 at 14:12

Got PL, I personally have not noticed it to be using any more horsepower than 1.6/2.0, so anyone worrying how it'll play based on how well the original played, I'd say you've got nothing to worry about

chris85oc · 27 Sep 2023 at 14:21

Kelt said:
Yeh, I noticed that when I tried PT + RR, more the crappy faces.

Went back to normal RT and all is good.

Idk what you guys mean. When using PT, RR is an improvement over no RR especially on faces. If compared to RT only, yes faces take a hit in clarity but more than make up for everything in being lit properly. With RT only they got the usual crappy glow/improper lighting seeping through clothing / hats etc.

Edit: yeah i see most are comparing RT to PT+RR in regards to faces, not PT vs PT+RR

Dicehunter · 28 Sep 2023 at 08:51

Batman Arkham Knight received an update recently on Steam that points to some sort of testing, This could be in line with the leaked list a few years back that pointed to RTX features being added in, BAK's city has a lot of glass and general reflective surfaces, Could be a good showcase.

Batman Arkham Knight Steam Update Hints At RTX Remaster

Batman Arkham Knight has received an update on Steam, which added a new private branch to the game, hinting at a potential RTX remaster.

tech4gamers.com

Nexus18 · 28 Sep 2023 at 10:50

Dicehunter said:
Batman Arkham Knight received an update recently on Steam that points to some sort of testing, This could be in line with the leaked list a few years back that pointed to RTX features being added in, BAK's city has a lot of glass and general reflective surfaces, Could be a good showcase.

Batman Arkham Knight Steam Update Hints At RTX Remaster

Batman Arkham Knight has received an update on Steam, which added a new private branch to the game, hinting at a potential RTX remaster.

tech4gamers.com

Fingers crossed that comes to geforce now otherwise 4090 it is :cry:

mrk · 1 Oct 2023 at 05:47

KompuKare said:
I can't get my head around W1zzard's huge praise for DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction.

"Better than native" with lots of blurb which seems to have been written by Nvidia's PR department.

The image comparisons tell a different story IMO. Especially the last image:

NVIDIA DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction Review - Better Than Native

NVIDIA DLSS 3.5 launches today, supporting GeForce 20 and newer. The new algorithm improves the looks ray traced lighting, reflections, shadows and more. In our DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction review we test image quality, but also discovered that VRAM usage actually goes down and performance goes up.

www.techpowerup.com

Better than native: because who wants to see the marble texture on the floor anyhow? Nice and blurred and soft is better?

Better than native: the reflections of those lanterns needs to do soft and blurry because that's all RR can do?

Lighting is a bit better, but that's it. Maybe all those years of testing GPUs has made W1zzard's unable to see textures?

Depends on the context entirely.

It's noted by DF and others, as well as nvidia although their wording could have been better than "Better than native", it's about the ray tracing de-noising. Since RR uses tensor cores, and as such DLSS has to be enabled for it to work, this results in better than native ray tracing as you no longer have the "walking pixels" noise in many areas of a ray traced scene like in shadows or on car paintwork under say shadow or on fences. So yes in that regard it /is/ better than native, until the day comes that ray reconstruction is possible at native res which bypasses the AI accelerator cores, then clean ray tracing will always be better than ray tracing at native res. Also on top of that DLSS3.5 removes the light response latency almost entirely which is another big positive gain as lighting reacts almost instantly now.

It can be fairly argued well how important is clean RT de-noising + the removal of the long light response latency vs say slightly less detailed reflections on a floor? Clean de-noising is a significant improvement for the overall visual experience in games that have ray tracing (currently only path tracing until the AI models are trained on normal RT too).

You also have to show a GIF or video side by side to capture what clean ray tracing is like vs native ray tracing, a still image is not suitable for that sort of comparison.

There will no doubt be an argument from those against the use of RT anyway since screen space looks good enough in this game, and in many situations I would agree, if you can't run RT/PT with acceptable fps, then there are only two options, upgrade the GPU or use lower settings.

The comparisons with RT vs PT vs PT+RR vs all RT off is quite significant and has been done to death already. What you will find is typically cherry picked examples where the difference is much smaller, and those are due to the fact that in those scenes at that in-game time of day, actual light would look similar and screen space approximations are as such, accurate enough to be convincing against RT/PT.

But in all other cases where actual light and shadow play a real part, there is only one real winner.

How important it is will be down to personal preference (and hardware obviously). No point running PT if the performance is crap, for example.

Check it out... Click the first screenshot, then use the arrow keys to cycle between them to best see the diff between PT+RR vs PT and no RR.

So yeah, Ray reconstruction = higher fps, higher detail, higher quality detailed lighting.

srekal34 · 1 Oct 2023 at 09:23

The progress in RT performance is astonishing. Remember when I bought 2080ti and was not impressed with performance hit and image quality, in Battlefield for example(and there were only RT reflections if I remember correctly). In few years we have moved to fully path traced image with a decent fps on 4090 - incredible. I wish AMD would take RT seriously, because they are slowing down the progress now, especially with gimped consoles.

z10m · 1 Oct 2023 at 09:39

Had a go at CP2077 PL with path tracing and ray reconstruction the other day on my 4090 and was not impressed at all.
The experience was simply laggy with frame generation on due to base framerate being too low even when using balanced dlss upscaling and there was way too much ghosting.
Oh and I wasn’t even using ultra settings but a combination of high and medium.
This is not how I enjoyed Cyberpunk before.
It’s just too much for 4090 to handle and it’s maybe good for screen shots.

Nexus18 · 1 Oct 2023 at 09:44

z10m said:
Had a go at CP2077 PL with path tracing and ray reconstruction the other day on my 4090 and was not impressed at all.
The experience was simply laggy with frame generation on due to base framerate being too low even when using balanced dlss upscaling and there was way too much ghosting.
Oh and I wasn’t even using ultra settings but a combination of high and medium.
This is not how I enjoyed Cyberpunk before.
It’s just too much for 4090 to handle and it’s maybe good for screen shots.

What Res are you at?

I'm finding it absolutely jaw dropping on the geforce now ultimate tier with a 4080 but that's at 3440x1440 with dlss balanced. I imagine 4k would be pretty tough.

z10m · 1 Oct 2023 at 09:51

Nexus18 said:
What Res are you at?

I'm finding it absolutely jaw dropping on the geforce now ultimate tier with a 4080 but that's at 3440x1440 with dlss balanced. I imagine 4k would be pretty tough.

Yeah it’s 4k.
I played maybe for about 20 minutes and gave up.
Yes it looks pretty but it’s just too laggy for me to enjoy.

gpuerrilla · 1 Oct 2023 at 09:53

Contrast of opinions then..

Thing is most people are on 4090's that are testing it (and loving it). Need a wider population sample.

z10m · 1 Oct 2023 at 10:09

gpuerrilla said:
Contrast of opinions then..

Thing is most people are on 4090's that are testing it (and loving it). Need a wider population sample.

I guess I got spoiled a bit since I upgraded to 4090 and 7800x3d by being able to max my display refresh rate on every game I played (using frame gen where possible), so now when CP2077 drops to ~80 fps it just doesn’t look or feel right, and I would rather drop to normal ray tracing settings to keep it more fluid and more responsive.