The RT Related Games, Benchmarks, Software, Etc Thread.

[ICDP]

I think the video gaming community just aren’t giving a crap about these intense RT games that tank performance for no real benefit. The fact is AMD have 100% integration in next gen consoles, so that is the defacto standard devs aim for.

So these full on RT FPS killing games are not becoming the standard, or even the yardstick any time soon. Because for all the FPS killing RT effects, the games still look no better than games that do it the “old” way.

I don’t look at W3 with this update and think wow, because I have seen nicer looking games on a console and they run far better as well.

We’ve been told since 2018 that extreme RT as pushed by Nvidia is the future. Four years later and this is it… about as welcome and useful as a fart in a spacesuit. No dev is going to look at this and think “we need this”, because this isn’t an advert for how awesome RT is, it’s and advert for how bad it is.

 

[Bill Turnip]

Another issue is the shadows cast by the light objects themselves. In Oxenfurt, you have fires lit in braziers - the bars of the braziers cast a shadow. But whilst the light source (open fire) should be a constantly moving, varying Intensity source, the shadows are pretty much fixed trapezoid emanating from each bar.

This isn't how firelight works, it's much more dynamic. Fire is treated as a light source and it causes moving objects (Geralt) to cast a shadow, but the shadows cast by the brazier itself just aren't right. The shadows also don't interact properly with each other, as I've seen by the moon causing Geralt to cast a shadow over open fire.

This is no worse than the original game, but I thought they were the sort of issues RT were supposed to solve.

 

[Poneros]

This is no worse than the original game, but I thought they were the sort of issues RT were supposed to solve.

Thing is most RT implementations are severely knee-capped especially if they're retrofitted like here. They simply did the remaster for cheap (likely due to the game being perma-discounted for <$10 for years now and the update is free) and sadly it's the best we could get. For RT to really shine they have to start with it in mind imo.
Frankly as disappointed as I am with the launch version I'm still happy they did what they did. The GI & shadows systems in vanilla were just dreadful and by far the game's most obvious visual weakness. As for this version the most severe issues will get patched in the first year and in the long run hardware will overpower what's left, with mods cleaning up & elevating the minutiae.

 

[Hedge]

I think the video gaming community just aren’t giving a crap about these intense RT games that tank performance for no real benefit. The fact is AMD have 100% integration in next gen consoles, so that is the defacto standard devs aim for.

So these full on RT FPS killing games are not becoming the standard, or even the yardstick any time soon. Because for all the FPS killing RT effects, the games still look no better than games that do it the “old” way.

I don’t look at W3 with this update and think wow, because I have seen nicer looking games on a console and they run far better as well.

We’ve been told since 2018 that extreme RT as pushed by Nvidia is the future. Four years later and this is it… about as welcome and useful as a fart in a spacesuit. No dev is going to look at this and think “we need this”, because this isn’t an advert for how awesome RT is, it’s and advert for how bad it is.

Pretty much this.

Outside of Cyberpunk none of the Raytraced stuff has blown me away.

I 100% believe it's the future of handling lighting in games. I just don't believe now is a time for it to matter. We are probably another 3 years out.

It might be just me but I can't really get too excited by Quake, Minecraft and a refresh of Portal (one of my favourite ever games too).

 

[Bill Turnip]

Thing is most RT implementations are severely knee-capped especially if they're retrofitted like here. They simply did the remaster for cheap (likely due to the game being perma-discounted for <$10 for years now and the update is free) and sadly it's the best we could get. For RT to really shine they have to start with it in mind imo.
Frankly as disappointed as I am with the launch version I'm still happy they did what they did. The GI & shadows systems in vanilla were just dreadful and by far the game's most obvious visual weakness. As for this version the most severe issues will get patched in the first year and in the long run hardware will overpower what's left, with mods cleaning up & elevating the minutiae.

The option to have it is good, and I'm not down on RT as a whole, don't get me wrong. I'm just starting to see bits that don't work in the way that I thought they would. This absolutely could be to do with the retrofitting, however.

I'll return in a few months after patches, but there's clearly something still wrong as mucking about with graphical settings causes far too many crashes. It may sort some of the performance issues out too, as at the moment the hit for me is too much.

 

[Nexus18]

I would if it would stop crashing. Tried it on DX 11 to try and get round it, but then no RT options are available.

No crashes yet, running pretty well for me, well in the sense, if you like 50-60 fps That is with everything maxed and dlss balanced @ 3440x1440. I'm sure there are probably some settings to reduce but given it's CDPR, give it a patch or 2 first

Shadows aren't quite right - I'm stood with a fire at my 2 oclock so my shadow should be roughly... 7 o clock? Shadow is at one o clock OVER THE FIRE.

THE MOON IS STRONGER THAN FIRE

Installed Witcher 3 and enabled RT and it looks worse than with RT off. The screenshots Nexus posted earlier show the same problem. The shadows with RT on just make the castle walls look flat and like cardboard cutouts. There is just far more depth and realistic contrast with RT off.

Not to mention the utterly rank performance even with DLSS on balanced.

These?

RT on looks a million times better and far more accurate:

Just at the RT off and where shadows/underneath objects where the sun can't hit and it's almost like you would think it was night time or those areas where painted in black

By depth and contrast do you mean, it "pops" more? If so, then yes, some might prefer that, same way some love those sweet

In terms of reflections, it isn't even a contest.

This still looks worlds apart better than RT Witcher.

No RT here boys, this was on the crap 5700 XT I used to own at 1080P 144hz.

Even GRID 2 has a way better art syle.

Those do look good but that is more down to the art style and intentional to look like that, as developers have said themselves, with RT, they have far more control to get a game looking how they want with RT than raster. and the most important thing for them is it saves a **** ton of time and effort and will also their game worlds to be more dynamic with destruction and so on.

isolation already has excellent reflections though via planar reflections. the game world doesn't have enough wet surfaces to warrant the use of RT reflections, and planar especially with the 8k shadows/reflections config file mod looks superb. here are a couple of my Isolation vids from 8 years ago to showcase that back then:

Notice no issue with the reflections falling in and out of screen space - And it was being played on a GTX 570 back then at 3440x1440 with that level of performance. They don't make games like that any more.

Yup when talking about smaller game worlds/linear games, developers can do the likes of the above very wel, RT reflections is more beneficial for open world games where you have various reflections via materials or/and bodies of water like spiderman, cp 2077, gta 5 etc.

I think the video gaming community just aren’t giving a crap about these intense RT games that tank performance for no real benefit. The fact is AMD have 100% integration in next gen consoles, so that is the defacto standard devs aim for.

So these full on RT FPS killing games are not becoming the standard, or even the yardstick any time soon. Because for all the FPS killing RT effects, the games still look no better than games that do it the “old” way.

I don’t look at W3 with this update and think wow, because I have seen nicer looking games on a console and they run far better as well.

We’ve been told since 2018 that extreme RT as pushed by Nvidia is the future. Four years later and this is it… about as welcome and useful as a fart in a spacesuit. No dev is going to look at this and think “we need this”, because this isn’t an advert for how awesome RT is, it’s and advert for how bad it is.

And that is where you're wrong, developers are wanting RT because it saves them time and gives them far more control hence why even regardless of nvidia or amds involvement, they are implementing it themselves.

We have to stop looking at poor release titles and looking at what can be achieved with RT when done 100% right i.e. metro ee. Of course there are plenty of other RT games which run very well but metro ee is the gold standard in both it's implementation and visuals, the fact they got it to run at 60 fps on consoles when any other titles even with only slight RT have to run at 30 fps says it all.

People need to start blaming devs. for rushing out untested/buggy games and not the tech. they're using. But sadly unless you work in the development industry, no one will quite understand what it is really like from a project budget and time perspective.

 

[Nexus18]

The option to have it is good, and I'm not down on RT as a whole, don't get me wrong. I'm just starting to see bits that don't work in the way that I thought they would. This absolutely could be to do with the retrofitting, however.

I'll return in a few months after patches, but there's clearly something still wrong as mucking about with graphical settings causes far too many crashes. It may sort some of the performance issues out too, as at the moment the hit for me is too much.

Ask any developer when it comes to new tools, they will say learning new tech and how to get the best from it is always the hardest bit, I can 100% confirm this based on my work alone and I imagine for games development, it is a completely different beast, in fact, even Phil from xbox stated this too so there will be a learning curve, devs have used raster for so long they they know how to get the best from it, all the neat tricks associated with it and so on, now they have to start with a new method and go through a similar learning curve and see what is possible. No doubt trying to get raster and RT to play nice together will be causing issues in itself, which is why they need to start dropping legacy hardware with not RT support

This is where 4a enhanced article is a great read:

IN-DEPTH TECHNICAL DIVE INTO METRO EXODUS PC ENHANCED EDITION — 4A Games

OUT NOW! We’re happy to let you know that the Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Edition is now released, bringing on board incredible improvements for Ray Tracing-capable GPUs, including Field of View options, DLSS 2.0, and much more. It is also a free entitlement to current owners – as it is so extensive

www.4a-games.com.mt

EVERYTHING TECHNICAL ABOUT METRO EXODUS UPGRADE FOR PLAYSTATION 5 AND XBOX SERIES X|S — 4A Games

IT’S OUT! We’re thrilled to let you know that the Metro Exodus next gen upgrade for PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S is OUT NOW . This is a perfect chance to dive into Metro Exodus since this upgrade includes generational advancements you will read about further in this blog. On top of that

www.4a-games.com.mt

 

[Bill Turnip]

No crashes yet, running pretty well for me, well in the sense, if you like 50-60 fps That is with everything maxed and dlss balanced @ 3440x1440

I'm getting around 40-45 in the same scenario. Though changing DLSS setting was making absolutely no difference, which is why I think there are improvements in patches to come. This isn't a free patch out of the goodness of their hearts to promote a game which is about £8 if you look for it though, it is being used as an nVidia showcase, and at the moment it's just reinforcing that I'd rather play RT off so that it is a smoother experience. RT is still not worth the money to me as a gamer.

Not denying you can make screenshots look lovely, you absolutely can, but if you start looking at the way the light and shadows interact in places, RT is not a panacea for this. @Poneros mentioned that it might be due to the retrofitting of the system in this game however, which I agree with, but this would imply that retrofitting old games with RT is not going to work properly, and tank performance for the luxury.

Devs can say all they want and explain how working with it is marvellous, but at the moment the results are stills with higher IQ, light which doesn't quite work in the way it's claimed, and at a significant performance cost that requires a four figure outlay. This is not appealing to me as a gamer. It may lead to great things down the line, but (cruel analogy alert) when a 2 year old child draws a picture, you don't immediately shell out for it on the basis that their work in the future could be a masterpiece.

EDIT - A little harsh in paragraph 3, a moving RT game can look good, but it needs to be performant. Increasing immersion in one way to break it elsewhere is kinda counter-intuitive.

 

[ICDP]

And that is where you're wrong, developers are wanting RT because it saves them time and gives them far more control…

Yet here we are…. A handful of extreme RT games of questionable quality that have tripe performance and the majority of PC enthusiasts are buying RTX 7900 XTX in droves, while the 4080 sits on shelves.

I’m not saying that as an attack, just pointing out the reality. The majority don’t care for RT.

 

[mrk]

Edit, wrong thread!

 

[Nexus18]

I'm getting around 40-45 in the same scenario. Though changing DLSS setting was making absolutely no difference, which is why I think there are improvements in patches to come. This isn't a free patch out of the goodness of their hearts to promote a game which is about £8 if you look for it though, it is being used as an nVidia showcase, and at the moment it's just reinforcing that I'd rather play RT off so that it is a smoother experience. RT is still not worth the money to me as a gamer.

Not denying you can make screenshots look lovely, you absolutely can, but if you start looking at the way the light and shadows interact in places, RT is not a panacea for this. @Poneros mentioned that it might be due to the retrofitting of the system in this game however, which I agree with, but this would imply that retrofitting old games with RT is not going to work properly, and tank performance for the luxury.

Devs can say all they want and explain how working with it is marvellous, but at the moment the results are stills with higher IQ, light which doesn't quite work in the way it's claimed, and at a significant performance cost that requires a four figure outlay. This is not appealing to me as a gamer. It may lead to great things down the line, but (cruel analogy alert) when a 2 year old child draws a picture, you don't immediately shell out for it on the basis that their work in the future could be a masterpiece.

EDIT - A little harsh in paragraph 3, a moving RT game can look good, but it needs to be performant. Increasing immersion in one way to break it elsewhere is kinda counter-intuitive.

What CPU do you have? I am running at 3440x1440 though, think your res. is slightly higher.

But yes without a doubt, improvements to be made!

Nvidia are in consoles too? Game is largely a remaster for next gen console tbf especially given the new interest/hype given to it by the tv show, obviously for pc side, nvidia have their hands involved though.

I haven't played too much so not noticed the RT issues but will check next time I'm on.

Don't disagree and not defending witcher 3 RT implementation but problem is people going "zOMG, all RT or/and nvidia fault" when reality is, it's the developers fault and not the tools they are using. It's like a project I am working on atm for my company, it's kubernetes based and people are pointing out issues, costs etc. all because "oh that's because it's on kubernetes" but reality is, it's not a fault of kubernetes itself, it's a fault of the way it has been setup and configured and a fault on the application developers side because they haven't written the app to make use of kubernetes advantages such as scaling with the pods to help make it adaptive to performance needs and as a result, it can't scale properly when it needs to thus it is costing a fortune to run, all because it hasn't been setup properly.

That's the difference, problem is most people on here don't have a developers mindset, which is obviously perfectly ok and nothing wrong with that.

Now perhaps there might be an issue with the way RT is being implemented i.e. if they are using any of nvidias methods/tools to do it

Yet here we are…. A handful of extreme RT games of questionable quality that have tripe performance and the majority of PC enthusiasts are buying RTX 7900 XTX in droves, while the 4080 sits on shelves.

I’m not saying that as an attack, just pointing out the reality. The majority don’t care for RT.

The majority don't care for RT yet a lot of games these days are adding it even when not sponsored by nvidia or amd or intel..... RT has always been more for developers than us, read or watch any article on it and you'll see this, that is why whether gamers like it or not, it will be forced on them as time goes on especially once old hardware with no RT support gets dropped.

Take with a pinch of salt obviously. Steam survey next year should reflect what the case is, I'm fulling expect rdna 3 to be clawing back market share but then given that rdna 2 had all the advantages people wanted i.e. cheaper, more vram, better PE/PC, better raster, they still gained little to nothing, in fact, they lost market share.... but obviously we had mining, covid/lockdown which influenced this all round...

 

[Bill Turnip]

What CPU do you have? I am running at 3440x1440 though, think your res. is slightly higher

10700K, but it's the res - Wasn't paying enough attention, I'm 3840x1600.

nVidia aren't in consoles, but neither are the full RT options...

 

[Nexus18]

10700K, but it's the res - Wasn't paying enough attention, I'm 3840x1600.

nVidia aren't in consoles, but neither are the full RT options...

Because it's amd powered Consoles always sacrifice RT settings, be that, the variety of RT effects, resolution of RT or/and the whole game, limit fps or/and entirely e.g. FC 6. I'm glad they give those who can the ability to scale up settings.

 

[Bill Turnip]

Consoles always sacrifice RT settings, be that, the variety of RT effects, resolution of RT or/and the whole game, limit fps or/and entirely e.g. FC 6. I'm glad they give those who can the ability to scale up settings.

That's always been the case, consoles have always had to compromise. RT is nothing special here. Couldn't agree more on the customisation though, scaling setting is the main advantage of PC gaming, up and down.

When it works at least...Tried running Witcher 3 at a lower res to see how RT Ultra looked when in smooth motion, but it just stretched 1920x1080 to fill an ultra wide screen If that's RT, I'm not impressed at all!

 

[Nexus18]

That's always been the case, consoles have always had to compromise. RT is nothing special here. Couldn't agree more on the customisation though, scaling setting is the main advantage of PC gaming, up and down.

When it works at least...Tried running Witcher 3 at a lower res to see how RT Ultra looked when in smooth motion, but it just stretched 1920x1080 to fill an ultra wide screen If that's RT, I'm not impressed at all!

I just had a quick check on fire pits and noticed that shadows look a bit "hard" when they hit foliage area but this is the case even with raster shadows. All in all, puzzles me when people say they can't see the difference

This boat is the best example of what I mean with raster especially in this game, it just looks like a cardboard cutout with pieces attached to the ground, no depth and nothing feels grounded and "apart" of the game world, it just looks like it has been set there and nothing else, hard to explain

Reminds me deathloops opening scene with the plane on the beach:

Hopefully devs can squeeze out some performance but given the scale of the world and the visuals on show with RT, sadly I would say this is about what to expect, CP 2077 with max settings and dlss balanced would be similar fps although never get dips to 40s like what you can see in some of the above so perhaps there is some room for improvement in the mins/lows....

 

[melmac]

the majority of PC enthusiasts are buying RTX 7900 XTX in droves

What? Are they? LOL How do you work that one out?

 

[Bill Turnip]

It's one of those things that works well from a distance, but when you get close to fires and things, it's possible to see that RT does not always work properly. May be more of a path tracing effect, but that will be a number of years down the line.

Have a look at the firepit shot - Just to the left of that are some larger rocks on the floor. Based on the angle of the light and size of the rock, the shadow should be far longer, no?

I realise it's proper nit-picky when looking at still images, wouldn't bother me at all in a smooth game, but from a purely tech point of view it's examples like that I thought RT would solve.

 

[Dicehunter]

the majority of PC enthusiasts are buying RTX 7900 XTX in droves

Do you have a source ? Out of all the people I know, A lot, Through Discord, General gaming etc... 1 person got a 7900XTX, The rest either bought last gen discounted 3000 series cards or jumped on the 4090.

 

[stooeh]

All in all, puzzles me when people say they can't see the difference

Puzzles me when people say it looks a million times better

 

[ICDP]

What? Are they? LOL How do you work that one out?

LOL, apologies for the poor wording. What I should have typed (and meant) was that paradoxically there seems to be more interest in the 7900 XTX, than there is for the 4080. Depsite the obvious disparity in the RT performance.

I am also on record here in saying that if it were me buying an over £1k GPU (£1050 7900 XTX vs a £1200 4080), I would spring for the 4080. I personally don't have RT high up my list, but at £150 extra I would consider it a deciding factor.

So the interest in the 7900 XTX and the fact it sold out within 30 minute (or less) surprised me. So that in itself is not evidence that RT is not a consideration, but the fact the 7900 XTX and many of the 6900 XT deals were popular, indicate the best RT performance is still not "must have".