The Sandman (coming to Netflix)

[mattx2]

Quite enjoyed this, I wasn't expecting much going in as I've never read the source material. As others have said episode 6 was probably the stand out for me as well

As for the wokeness the genre's called fantasy!
It's meant to be unrealistic. I honestly can't stand people complaining about something that has demons, demi gods, biblical figures, immortals but a black person in 1800 England is a stretch too far.

 

[Rroff]

You can't hand wave away, where it is really the case, "wokeness" with "fantasy".

Like with sci-fi there is only so far "anything goes" before, even if somewhat subjective, it stops working.

Which is why it is a shame in certain parts, fortunately fairly minor, where changes/approaches have been used based on pandering to woke agenda or themes or similar rather than what works best for the story and show as those aspects really do kick you out of the moment - as there is plenty of room within the material and plenty of places in the show where it works organically.

Although I really don't think it works with Lucifer personally, whereas Death I thought the actress did a convincing job.

 

[mattx2]

You can't hand wave away, where it is really the case, "wokeness" with "fantasy".

Like with sci-fi there is only so far "anything goes" before, even if somewhat subjective, it stops working.

Which is why it is a shame in certain parts, fortunately fairly minor, where changes/approaches have been used based on pandering to woke agenda or themes or similar rather than what works best for the story and show as those aspects really do kick you out of the moment - as there is plenty of room within the material and plenty of places in the show where it works organically.

Although I really don't think it works with Lucifer personally, whereas Death I thought the actress did a convincing job.

It's not always the wokeness bogeyman that decides a characters race or gender

In the case of Lucifer I think they were concerned that another male actor would always be compared to Tom Ellis and wanted a clean slate. I think the actress was a good choice initally but agree she was one of the weaker parts of the show. I don't blame wokeness for that. They just something different and it didn't quite click

 

[Deleted member 236143]

anything that would kick you out of the moment would be something that challenges and upsets your equilibrium
interestingly
it is over 30 years old

 

[Rroff]

anything that would kick you out of the moment would be something that challenges and upsets your equilibrium
interestingly
it is over 30 years old

The changes I'm talking about are not 30+ years old.

As an aside if you knew me - things don't tend to challenge or upset me or my equilibrium in that respect - I've seen and done far too much.

 

[arknor]

I watched till ep 7 or 8 I'm not sure which.
honestly was fairly good but started to lose it's way and I just skipped through the last couple of episodes.

sometimes the script was like drwho/eastenders terrible other times really good.

shame they forced in so much diversity and like 50% of the cast must be LGBTQ I'm guessing.
I don't care what the comics were like I never read them, it's clearly hitting the screens now because it fits the woke era


how come when they bring in diversity they don't use african actors? why they always use UK/Americans? you'd think there were no blacks outside of these 2 countries or something... if they want to be diverse why not do it properly?

 

[NickK]

Good 8/10. An enjoyable watch. Yes we both commented on the tick box of diversity being almost predictable. However we both enjoyed the series 1..

 

[Kesomir]

I've watched the first episode and it was good enough that I'll be onto the second. Shame a few are saying it peters out, but hey ho, guess I'll see

 

[C Kent]

Think people should maybe read Neil Gaiman - the books and the comics. He was diverse in the 80s before being diverse was a thing.

I've never read the comic and I haven't started to watch the TV show yet, will probably settle down in 30 odd minutes or so to watch the 1st episode. But, if Gaiman was as diverse as you claim why did he not write character xyz as a minority? After all it was his original story he could have written them anyway he wanted right?

 

[seabiscuit]

Well it wasn't totally his own original story. His "The Sandman" is the third(?) DC character to be called The Sandman. He will likely have had some restrictions and constraints put on him by DC at the time, as it was in the mid-late 80's, particularly when starting off a new series of comics where much was unknown. But this wasn't totally in isolation either. The first "book" or story arc, is kind of a horror spin off from Batman and Justice League. It featured existing DC characters, like Dr Crane/Scarecrow, John Dee/Doctor Destiny, John Constantine (and in later comics he created an ancestor of Constentines, Lady Johanna Constentine), J'on J'onzz/Martian Manhunter, Cain and Abel, the Satanic Triumvirate, a character who is (hinted as being) Matt Cable after he died, and probably more that I don't know. But as C Kent from Krypton, you probably know a lot more DC than I do.
If you've not read it, and you've not watched it (yet), why do you have any worries or questions about how diversely it was or was not written, or how characters were originally written or drawn? Wouldn't it make more sense to read it yourself, watch it yourself, and make your own judgement?

But, if Gaiman was as diverse as you claim why did he not write character xyz as a minority?

If and when you read the entire run, you will find many times he did. Far more than was in most other media, from film, novels, TV, and other comics of the time.

I hope you do enjoy it when you watch it. Yes, some things have changed from the books. The authors own experiences in life will change his point of view in 30 years since it was written. I'm not the same person with the same points of view as I was 30 years ago, otherwise I'd be here saying how brilliant Starscream (Transformer)was. The most recent Sandman book/collection that I've read, Overture, has a bit of a different perspective on family, parents and children, than the original 75 issue run. But Gaiman is a parent himself now, and time and life changes you.

The whole story of the Sandman is about stories, family, change, responsibility and accountabilty. I started reading them at uni over 20 years ago, and I still think it's one of the most incredible things I've read.

 

[Mrs Seabiscuit]

Can i please remind people, the Sandman was written in 1989! Please actually read the comic, before you actually reply.

 

[arknor]

Can i please remind people, the Sandman was written in 1989! Please actually read the comic, before you actually reply.

who cares it doesn't mean its not woke..... just fits the woke agenda now and not in 1989...
you could say it was woke before it's time, I'd imagine woke is something thats soon not allowed to be discussed on these forums anyway.

A whole world but everyone in it is basically English/American how very diverse

I bet the Africans look at the woke crusade and wonder why they aren't part of it.
is it some guilt trip about slavery? seems it's not really about being diverse at all... there's great actors from loads of different countries.

 

[DrToffnar]

Finished it last night. I'm amazed it's done so well in certain circles to be honest. Thought it was poorly cobbled together nonsense after episode 6 and even up to that point it was testing my patience at times.

I enjoyed seeing a lot of what I loved brought to the screen, but it felt too overcommitted to carrying over the original source material at times, making it feel bloated and poorly structured.

I have absolutely no idea why they didn't confine Johns story arc to the whole season. An utterly bizarre decision to spend 6 episodes developing a specific narrative only to conclude it and start another up over half way through the season. Such poor writing and I can only imagine it's because they wanted to fit as much of the original narrative in as possible for fear of there not being enough interest in commissioning a second series.

TO be honest I've not had the best month so maybe it's just me. Frame of mind makes a big difference when your watching things like this.

 

[arknor]

but would you meet a randomer in a pub every 100 years for the most boring and mundane chat you've ever had?

 

[Shocky-FM]

The Sandman was diverse for it's time, but still not diverse enough I guess, they still had to gender and race swap characters.

The over representation of black individuals on the show and on TV in general is a joke, they're 3% of the population in the UK, back in the 1930's when the series starts it would have been hardly any at all, maybe 5000 in the whole country? Remember when shows took pride in being historically accurate when set in the past?, those days are long gone.

It was an okay show overall, Tom Sturridge as well as few others carried the show, David Thewlis and Charles Dance were both excellent. Jenna Coleman was okay, she would have been better off playing death imo.

 

[mattx2]

The over representation of black individuals on the show and on TV in general is a joke, they're 3% of the population in the UK, back in the 1930's when the series starts it would have been hardly any at all, maybe 5000 in the whole country? Remember when shows took pride in being historically accurate when set in the past?, those days are long gone.

I tried to look up the population ethnicity, sexual orientation and gender mix for the dream realm, hell and the endless but couldn't find anything..

The actual characters based in reality are pretty much all white. So looks like they were historically accurate

 

[Shocky-FM]

I tried to look up the population ethnicity, sexual orientation and gender mix for the dream realm, hell and the endless but couldn't find anything..

The actual characters based in reality are pretty much all white. So looks like they were historically accurate

Just look at the comic? they race swapped a number of characters. In the scenes based in the 1930's there were many black background characters, and that's definitely not historically accurate, it would have been incredibility rare to see any black individuals ln the UK back then.

 

[mattx2]

Just look at the comic? they race swapped a number of characters. In the scenes based in the 1930's there were many black background characters, and that's definitely not historically accurate, it would have been incredibility rare to see any black individuals ln the UK back then.

Didn't read the comic so taking the show as it is.
I honestly didn't notice what race the background characters are like probably 99% of people that watched it

Also comics have been gender/race swapping characters way before everyone started claiming everything was woke

I don't consider myself woke but these days it seems if Alien was released today people would complain it was too woke having a female lead and a black guy in it

 

[Shocky-FM]

Didn't read the comic so taking the show as it is.
I honestly didn't notice what race the background characters are like probably 99% of people that watched it

Also comics have been gender/race swapping characters way before everyone started claiming everything was woke

I don't consider myself woke but these days it seems if Alien was released today people would complain it was too woke having a female lead and a black guy in it

You didn't notice? Don't believe you. Or maybe you're attention to detail is a little lacking.

You're just being silly here, if Alien actually had a series of popular books or comics that had detailed world lore and character information before the movies, people probably would have been annoyed if their favourite characters were race or gender swapped for a sake of satisfying a diversity quota.. This thankfully wasn't an issue back then.

For original works nobody cares if the lead is black or a woman, it's never been an issue.

 

[Jonny2284]

Or maybe most folk don't get upset about nor count how many black people are in something or make comments like "skip any scenes that include black characters only."

Seems you have some unresolved issues regarding race.