The Sandman (coming to Netflix)

Jonny2284 said:
Or maybe most folk don't get upset about nor count how many black people are in something or make comments like "skip any scenes that include black characters only."

Seems you have some unresolved issues regarding race.
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That comment related to last few episodes which contained a lot of filler, episode 1-6 were decent, the rest didn't really work for me, and it just so happened that a lot of the scenes involved Rose and the brother which didn't really interest me or add much imo, two more characters that were race swapped and gave forgettable performances.

I have issues with forced diversity, no issues with black leads or even movies with predominately black characters within reason, it was never an issue in the 80s/90s. Nobody went to see an Eddie Murphy, Denzel Dashington, Samuel L. Jackson or Wesley Snipes film and think there are to many black people, we just enjoyed the movies, because nobody made an issue out of race, so typically characters were never race swapped. Also helps that Blade in the comic was actually Black. lol
 
Shocky-FM said:
The Sandman was diverse for it's time, but still not diverse enough I guess, they still had to gender and race swap characters.

The over representation of black individuals on the show and on TV in general is a joke, they're 3% of the population in the UK, back in the 1930's when the series starts it would have been hardly any at all, maybe 5000 in the whole country? Remember when shows took pride in being historically accurate when set in the past?, those days are long gone.

It was an okay show overall, Tom Sturridge as well as few others carried the show, David Thewlis and Charles Dance were both excellent. Jenna Coleman was okay, she would have been better off playing death imo.
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funny enough the 1921 census shows that there were over 9000 people born in the west indies alone living in the england, 22000 from south africa,75,000 from india,100k from other countries, and while i accept some of these people will be white, the higher % will not be. add in the fact that many of the TV location were in or around London, and London had the largest pop of non whites I don't think they had "over representation of black individuals"
 
Btone said:
funny enough the 1921 census shows that there were over 9000 people born in the west indies alone living in the england, 22000 from south africa,75,000 from india,100k from other countries, and while i accept some of these people will be white, the higher % will not be. add in the fact that many of the TV location were in or around London, and London had the largest pop of non whites I don't think they had "over representation of black individuals"
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Not sure that census mentions race, just nationality. Wouldn't surprise me if the vast majority were white, especially from South Africa.

But assuming they're all black which they're not, what percentage of the population are you talking about here? less than 1%? And this is a high estimation.
 
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Btone said:
funny enough the 1921 census shows that there were over 9000 people born in the west indies alone living in the england, 22000 from south africa,75,000 from india,100k from other countries, and while i accept some of these people will be white, the higher % will not be. add in the fact that many of the TV location were in or around London, and London had the largest pop of non whites I don't think they had "over representation of black individuals"
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London 50% none white or more? also who cares where the tv location is.... actors travel for work your not restricted to locals.
if they wantr to be diverse wheres the koreans? chinese? actual africans? maybe some of the foreign white people etc

why limit your self to indian, black and white if your wanting to be diverse?


funnily enough all us racists loved the last few big korean series.... strange since we should be restricting our selves to the white man or something.


Most white actors in our country are all toffs anyway they don't have much in relation with the general population, they may as well be their own race
 
Watched the 1st few and whilst the world building was interesting I just found it dull mainly, quite a few eye rolling moments too.
Pretty sure I'll not bother carrying on.
 
A lot of people go on about it being “woke”.

When it came out as a comic is wasn’t “woke” it was out there, it was different.

Why do people associate that which they enjoyed and saw as different back then with “woke” now just because it fits the narrative of what “woke” happens to be?

Nothing has changed, it is accurate but with the odd bit of artistic license thrown in to bend a few characters descriptions here and there but that’s more of a sign of modern times and the diversity that our world now embraces in 2022 rather than 1989 plus I imagine it needs a bit of work on the PC side given it’s 30 years old and likely falls outside of what PC is today in some areas. The characters if gay in the comic are gay in the series so what’s the issue? Its a reasonably accurate realisation of a comic to a series. I think they’ve done well not to make as many changes as they could have and to keep the soul of the comic intact.

Perhaps the issue with what is “woke” is that it is seemingly forced on everyone with everything around you and as a result and because you are very much aware of it that it is now becoming more difficult to look past it and to assume the worst? As if there is some sort of agenda?

Anyway, series is great so far, well worth the re-sub after my 3 months break from Netflix. I feel like I have something to watch now.
 
While I can see why people would write it off as all woke nonsense it is certainly not just how it was originally either. That seems disingenuous to me.

There is a distinct difference between the elements involving diversity from the original which have a richness and depth and the more modern, shallow, woke elements which have been shoehorned in adding nothing to the story and in fact detract from it while diluting some of the quality of the bits which were there originally. Fortunately it is fairly minor compared to some shows/movies these days but it isn't rare either and when it is there it does more harm than good and completely unnecessary given what there is to play with in the original material.

mattx2 said:
It's not always the wokeness bogeyman that decides a characters race or gender

In the case of Lucifer I think they were concerned that another male actor would always be compared to Tom Ellis and wanted a clean slate. I think the actress was a good choice initally but agree she was one of the weaker parts of the show. I don't blame wokeness for that. They just something different and it didn't quite click
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Apparently a David Bowie like character was what Gaiman was aiming at - I can kind of see how Gwendoline Christie slots into that but I don't think it quite worked - someone who could better pull off a Bowie like Lucifer could still be distinct from Tom Ellis's take. Female wise Tilda Swinton could have probably pulled it off but she already has baggage as Gabriel (even if available/willing).

EDIT: Personally think Gwendoline Christie is a great actor but there is an underlying warmth to her which doesn't work for Lucifer.
 
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Shocky-FM said:
The Sandman was diverse for it's time, but still not diverse enough I guess, they still had to gender and race swap characters.

The over representation of black individuals on the show and on TV in general is a joke, they're 3% of the population in the UK, back in the 1930's when the series starts it would have been hardly any at all, maybe 5000 in the whole country? Remember when shows took pride in being historically accurate when set in the past?, those days are long gone.

It was an okay show overall, Tom Sturridge as well as few others carried the show, David Thewlis and Charles Dance were both excellent. Jenna Coleman was okay, she would have been better off playing death imo.
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You can't make a TV show nowadays without having lots of Black characters if you watch the adverts as well 90 percent of them have black people in them they are very overrepresented on TV.
 
It must be awfully distressing to see black people on your adverts. My condolences.

Never heard of this until the teaser trailer a few months back. Looked intriguing enough so I'll put it on my, growing faster than I can keep up, list of things to watch.
 
Junglist said:
It must be awfully distressing to see black people on your adverts. My condolences.

Never heard of this until the teaser trailer a few months back. Looked intriguing enough so I'll put it on my, growing faster than I can keep up, list of things to watch.
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Dismissing people that point out the the continued over representation of minorities, particularly black people is certainly interesting.

We all know what it's about, it's wrong, it doesn't represent reality, I'll keep pointing it out because I know it causes some people actual distress, especially on social media. lol
 
Junglist said:
It must be awfully distressing to see black people on your adverts. My condolences.

Never heard of this until the teaser trailer a few months back. Looked intriguing enough so I'll put it on my, growing faster than I can keep up, list of things to watch.
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Does it bother you that the representation of black people (adverts mainly here) is a black man with a white women? There seems to be a void of showing real black family life with the media people consume.
 
Shocky-FM said:
Dismissing people that point out the over representation of minorities, particularly black people is certainly interesting.

We all know it's wrong, it doesn't represent reality, I'll keep pointing it out because I know it causes some people actual distress. lol
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BanBoms point was hackneyed and without nuance. There's no space for such a trite take on the matter when it clearly means so much to so many people, regardless of position.

To be honest I'm exceptionally bored of how threads like this get derailed by discussions such as these. I don't personally care about how the showrunners choose to cast roles, contrary to source material or not. I'm only concerned with how it watches.

As far as I'm concerned it's a moot point here anyway. Gaiman is an Exec Producer on the show and seems perfectly happy with how it's turned out.
 
DrToffnar said:
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As far as I'm concerned it's a moot point here anyway. Gaiman is an Exec Producer on the show and seems perfectly happy with how it's turned out.
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Any man that's happy for his wife to be plowed, sorry happy with an open marriage, is to far down the rabbit hole imo
 
DrToffnar said:
BanBoms point was hackneyed and without nuance. There's no space for such a trite take on the matter when it clearly means so much to so many people, regardless of position.

To be honest I'm exceptionally bored of how threads like this get derailed by discussions such as these. I don't personally care about how the showrunners choose to cast roles, contrary to source material or not. I'm only concerned with how it watches.

As far as I'm concerned it's a moot point here anyway. Gaiman is an Exec Producer on the show and seems perfectly happy with how it's turned out.
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Not a moot point at all, It would have been part of the agreement with Netflix and their diversity quota, Amazon are exactly the same, with an aim to increase black cast actors to 50% I believe. He had no choice if he wanted the show to be made, and once it was agreed he's not going to speak out. He's a sell out as far as I'm concerned.

We're all a little bored of talking about it, would be great if we could just undo the influence of toxic identify politics and return to a time when people were cast based on talent and whether or not they were suitable for the roles, rather than it being based on skin colour.
 
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Shocky-FM said:
Dismissing people that point out the the continued over representation of minorities, particularly black people is certainly interesting.

We all know what it's about, it's wrong, it doesn't represent reality, I'll keep pointing it out because I know it causes some people actual distress, especially on social media. lol
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I'm already not taking much you say seriously anyway. To advise people to skip scenes with only black people in gives me a good indication of your grievances.
C Kent said:
Does it bother you that the representation of black people (adverts mainly here) is a black man with a white women? There seems to be a void of showing real black family life with the media people consume.
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Not particularly, no. As a black man with a white woman and a mixed race child, I believe that shows my real family life quite well. Why do you care about what a 'real black family life' (whatever that even is) is about on an advert? Besides, Sainsburys tried it and got criticised cause they dare show a black family at Christmas. They probably see mixed couples as a safe ground.


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I do have a bit of sympathy for those constantly outraged and offended at perceiving everything as being 'woke'. It must get tiring and feeling like you're fighting against the current. I really can't even begin to imagine how annoying it must be watching everything through a lens trying to decide if someone was hired based on talent or just because they look/identify a certain way.

Fortunately, I just don't care that much. If something is good I'll watch and enjoy it without worrying if there are too many minorities or if a woman is saving the day. Ultimately if a story is good and the actors are competent that is what will have my attention. If the story is trash and the actors are also trash, I'll just turn it off and never watch it again.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.
 
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