The Tesla Thread

Moses said:
They did a battery swap demo on a Tesla keynote a while back. It was quick and pain free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

Starts a minute in. Takes one and a half minutes.

Although it sounds like they prefer the Supercharger/would much rather push that, given the uptake on battery swaps isn't going to be massive when Supercharging is free.
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That was just to earn tax credits to sell to
OEMs. Teslas real revenue stream.

Batteries dictate so much of the skateboard package it's difficult to even start defining what a standard pack should be. Particularly with the range of cell sizes and shapes on offer.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I am sure there will come to a point where you can just carry a spare, perhaps not the same size, but half size. May be an additional port in the boot where you can bolt in a 50% extra should you want to. Or you keep a full size at home so you can to a quick swap at home and off out again. Imagine you come home from work and need to drive off away for the weekend.
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You suggest carrying around a spare 250kg battery yet not plugging it in? What would be the point in that?

And how much spinach are you eating of your just casually going to swap a battery at home! :eek:
 
Skeeter said:
You suggest carrying around a spare 250kg battery yet not plugging it in? What would be the point in that?

And how much spinach are you eating of your just casually going to swap a battery at home! :eek:
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Well, in the future I would expect batteries tech to be much more advance, not 125kg of battery, I am thinking about 10.25kg of battery or even 1.25kg.
 
Clarkey said:
You're splitting hairs, it's clearly a far smaller hurdle to overcome than the liquid dinosaur system that was already developed, through a time when we had next to no technology.

I don't care either way tbh, but it's clear you are only opposed because you work in the oil industry :p
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Where does anywhere say my point of view. I'm not opposed or for EV but I do understand the industry and there is a lot of progres left for the ICE

Haha at a smaller hurdle. Do you have any idea about global logistics. Liquid is the easiest stuff to move on the planet. There is a reason the whole uk fuel supply is underground and why natural gas is compressed into liquid. It flows easily and packs efficiently.

Swappable batteries are never going to be viable. People won't even swap batteries on a phone !
 
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Clarkey said:
Not really, it works just fine for fork lifts why couldn't they make it work?

Imagine this for a second, ICE cars didn't exist and there was no infrastructure for fuel. Someone comes up with some pie in the sky idea about how we're going to drill crude oil out of the ocean floor, transport it around the world, refine it and have high quality fuel available at pumps within say 20 miles of anywhere in the land which is a universal fit for any car and takes a couple of minutes.

You would think it's far more absurd than making a system which can swap heavy batteries.
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Oh and crude oil isn't just for car fuel. The whole world relies on oil to make pretty much everything.
 
Skeeter said:
Tesla seem to already be playing that card. The 120kW and 50kW Super Chargers all use a proprietary Tesla plug, don't they?
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Proprietary in the sense of they designed it. They announced last year that the patents are open source so any one can use it without charge.

The point of the supercharger is it can provide far more power than any of the other chargers and it is the way forward if anyone wants to charge in a reasonable fast time.

EDIT: Announced in 2014, not last year
 
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Ok, my brain hurts reading this:

https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-battery-energy-density-improves-5-8-per-year

But the maths seem to suggest that a 5% to 8% per year improvement in battery energy density is about right, but that the limit is in about 25 years time, at about 4x the density we have now.

So in 25 years time there could be an EV with a battery 1/4 the weight of the Tesla (125kg), yet with the same power. Or, obviously, a battery thats still 500kg, but has 4 times the capacity.

Thats going to be pretty much it though, without bending the laws of physics.

Another reason why batteries are a dead end. Increasing energy density of batteries 4x would make them still only around 1 tenth the density of petrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density (although we pee most of that away in wasted heat and noise).
 
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Clarkey said:
You're splitting hairs, it's clearly a far smaller hurdle to overcome than the liquid dinosaur system that was already developed, through a time when we had next to no technology.

I don't care either way tbh, but it's clear you are only opposed because you work in the oil industry :p
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You'll be pleased to know that not everyone that works in the oil industry is a dinosaur. Unfortunately there are still a lot, generally older engineers with no knowledge of how the world (climate, oil and rock formation etc) actually works...:p
 
I do love a good Wikipedia session :)

Got sucked into looking at what the highest energy density (sorry, Specific Energy :p) battery around is, and its Litium-Air, by a looooooong way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium–air_battery

Its 5 to 15 times more dense than any Li-ion. It offers comparable Specific Energy to petrol, yet with electric motors at 95% efficiency while the ICE still lingers around the lowly 35% efficiency mark, a Li-air battery of the same weight as a full petrol tank would give 3 times the range!

Great, you think!

But alas, no. The Wiki article is full of quotes like this:

Most researches working in the field of Li-O2 batteries do not consider this technology as a good investment opportunity.
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However, expectations for a practical Li-air battery should be kept modest given the severity of the challenges facing the battery chemistry
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During the first decade of this century, a fair amount of research has been conducted on Li-air battery system. Yet, Li-air batteries could not make an industrial breakthrough, and are still in the laboratory phase since their birth. … low discharge rate, low… number of cycles, oxidation of lithium anode, discharge products at the cathode, and side reactions inside the battery are the key limiting factors in the slow progress of Li-air batteries on an industrial scale
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They look great on paper, but seem to have had little success. They have been around since the 1970s and have been heavily invested in for the last 10 to 15 years with no sign of a breakthrough.

And this is the absolute best of the experimental battery technologies out there. Everything else is at least 10 times less dense.
 
stuman said:
but what happens if somebody slashes 2 tyres?

sell your ICE, you cannot ensure this scenario won't happen!
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Slashing tyres, damaging a car, stealing petrol, etc are all criminal offences.

Unplugging a car from a charger is (as far as I'm aware) nothing but a mischievous prank.
 
Moses said:
They did a battery swap demo on a Tesla keynote a while back. It was quick and pain free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V0vL3nnHY

Starts a minute in. Takes one and a half minutes.

Although it sounds like they prefer the Supercharger/would much rather push that, given the uptake on battery swaps isn't going to be massive when Supercharging is free.
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While impressive, it would require a very limited number of different types of standard batteries to even start to be feasible. I can't see this being the every day recharge method due to the space and hardware requirements at recharging stations but motorway stations it would certainly be possible if it had the manufacturer and investment backing. Long term, a vehicle with a true 400 mile range and a decent recharge in 30 minutes would be better.
 
Skeeter said:
Slashing tyres, damaging a car, stealing petrol, etc are all criminal offences.

Unplugging a car from a charger is (as far as I'm aware) nothing but a mischievous prank.
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You do realise that EV plugs are electromagnetically locked. You don't simply 'remove' them when they are charging! As an EV owner myself, I sometimes have people ask me if somebody else can simply unplug the vehicle whilst it's charging. If they did manage to do so, without killing themselves, it would certainly constitute the offence of criminal damage at the very least.
 
The issue with battery swapping, is you still need to charge the batteries.

It takes the charge time issue away from the end user and gives it to the station instead. The capacity is still limited by the electricity feed and charging capabilities of the station.

The effective throughput of the station is exactly the same as a station of Super Chargers.
 
I have never seen a thread more full of people with a complete lack of foresight, willingness to completely ignore facts and just overall stupidity.
It's amazing really given this is a computer component forum....


Electric cars are going to work clearly, Whether you like it or not.

Batteries are clearly going to improve, Probably faster than the previous year on year developments given that much more research (and MONEY) is going into the area now thanks to smart phones (and tesla's big **** off battery factory).

This thread will be hilarious to look back on in about 10 years time I think....
 
Its equally amazing that the side of the argument using evidence, calculations, maths, common sense, documented trends, and confirmed improvement road maps is seen as the "stupid" side, while making wild, baseless claims and basing the argument on theoretical or fictional or fantastical ideals is seen as the "sensible" argument :rolleyes:.

Literally nothing in my arguments is made up, its all based on doing research or some simple calculation. Yet I'm the one being labeled stupid.
 
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