The Tesla Thread

[Nasher]

My dad has a Vauxhall Ampera, so not exactly the pinnacle of hybrid/EV tech but here's a few figures..

He lives outside of Leeds and has a 12 mile each way commute into the centre of Leeds.

Trip computer A is on 300 miles with 0.0 gal fuel use.

Trip computer B is on 600 miles with 1.7 gal fuel use, and that's only from a lack of planning regarding charging points at one destination.

Lifetime average over almost 35k miles is 105mpg. This includes several trips across Europe using it almost solely as a normal petrol car which has probably cut that average in half.

As a commuter tool and for the vast majority of personal use if it had been an electric only car it would have been perfectly fine and most days wouldn't need charging throughout the day.

Electric is so easily conceivable as the future for so many people. Yes for people who do 50k a year it may not be viable in its current form but there isn't a single person in my office for example who wouldn't be able to use even a poverty spec EV to commute.

Why there isn't more forethought about implementing this tech I don't know. It should be mandatory for developers to install solar panels on all new build houses for instance.

But how much does he pay for the battery rental? That is a huge hidden cost...

For me, the battery rental alone on many EVs would cost more than I spend on fuel for my commute. On days I'm not using the car it costs about £1.60 to sit there doing nothing (inc. tax, insurance, etc). But on an EV I'd still be paying for the batteries and it's £4-5 a day, before even adding the other costs.

I suppose you could just not pay the rental, but then you might be slapped with an 8 grand bill at some point for new battery packs.

 

[matthab]

When the Cupra's lease comes up, I will need to investigate the Model 3. I dont often do trip over 200miles and if I do Its normally down the M40 with plenty of charging points.

 

[Rilot]

Merged the two Model 3 threads

 

[adam cool dude]

I actually think electricity will only get cheaper, as more and more green energy types become available, solar/wind with battery storage for example, or using battery power from cars plugged in during peak times. Electricity will be cleaner and more readily available in the future. There won't be a need for dirty coal power or toxic nuclear as we learn the harness the power of the sun better.

And for those that think solar would never work properly in the uk because we don't get enough sun. Solar panels work just fine without direct sunlight. Yes they are better with it, but they still function fine without.

You would be mad to think electricity would get cheaper. The government isn't going to let all that fuel duty and tax to just vanish.

 

[Glaucus]

But how much does he pay for the battery rental? That is a huge hidden cost...

For me, the battery rental alone on many EVs would cost more than I spend on fuel for my commute. On days I'm not using the car it costs about £1.60 to sit there doing nothing (inc. tax, insurance, etc). But on an EV I'd still be paying for the batteries and it's £4-5 a day, before even adding the other costs.

I suppose you could just not pay the rental, but then you might be slapped with an 8 grand bill at some point for new battery packs.

You don't rent batteries on teslas, or most EVs it's only really Renault you do that.
Also on teslas at least the data is showing they last for longer than most cars as well as the warranty.

You would be mad to think electricity would get cheaper. The government isn't going to let all that fuel duty and tax to just vanish.

Al that's true, it is extremely unlikely they would put it on electricity. As that would increase all electrical bills. Much more likely they would go down a fixed car tax or even a GPS tracking system.

 

[Jokester]

Aye, latest trends show on average you'll lose about 1% of range for every 10,000 miles driven.

 

[McPhee]

But how much does he pay for the battery rental? That is a huge hidden cost...

For me, the battery rental alone on many EVs would cost more than I spend on fuel for my commute. On days I'm not using the car it costs about £1.60 to sit there doing nothing (inc. tax, insurance, etc). But on an EV I'd still be paying for the batteries and it's £4-5 a day, before even adding the other costs.

I suppose you could just not pay the rental, but then you might be slapped with an 8 grand bill at some point for new battery packs.

Battery rental is an experiment being conducted by the Renault-Nissan Alliance. They're the only manufacturers that even do it.

Both manufacturers offer their cars with or without battery rental, with the battery rental car being a few grand cheaper. Renault are pushing the battery rental option, while Nissan are pushing the fully owned option.

In both cases, you don't have to have a battery rental.

The most expensive battery rental option either manufacturer has ever offered is Renault's unlimited mileage option on the Zoe ZE40. £110/month or about £3.70 per day. The rental cost is typically ~10p per mile.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

But how much does he pay for the battery rental? That is a huge hidden cost...

For me, the battery rental alone on many EVs would cost more than I spend on fuel for my commute. On days I'm not using the car it costs about £1.60 to sit there doing nothing (inc. tax, insurance, etc). But on an EV I'd still be paying for the batteries and it's £4-5 a day, before even adding the other costs.

I suppose you could just not pay the rental, but then you might be slapped with an 8 grand bill at some point for new battery packs.

On a volt nothing like most others the car and drivetrain is the product.

It's only the Zoe really that pushes rental to reduce its price.

It's not really hidden is it. If you have one you know if your paying it or not. It's only hidden if you have no idea what you are regurgitating - isn't it....

 

[McPhee]

You would be mad to think electricity would get cheaper. The government isn't going to let all that fuel duty and tax to just vanish.

There's no chance the government are going to increase tax on electricity to 50-60% from the current 5%.

Firstly, it would be politically toxic.

Secondly, it would increase the incentive for people to generate and store their own.

Ministers will find other ways to raise the revenue. Petrol and Diesel cars aren't going to disappear overnight. There's plenty of time to slowly increase other taxes to compensate.

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Maybe so, but they've still got to pretty much make all the batteries we need to replace all petrol/diesel engined vehicles. Though I suppose the good news is the environmental damage will likely be mostly contained to China where they don't really care about open cast mining and dirty refining!

Tesla are building a battery factory that will make more batteries than the rest of the world combined. The giga factory I believe its called.

 

[Jokester]

Tesla are building a battery factory that will make more batteries than the rest of the world combined. The giga factory I believe its called.

But where does the raw material come? It all comes out of the ground, predominantly in countries with less than stellar environmental protections.

 

[Glaucus]

But where does the raw material come? It all comes out of the ground, predominantly in countries with less than stellar environmental protections.

And oil production is so squeaky clean, these sorts of arguments are just stupid.
On top of that Tesla is looking to switch to local sources of metals like lithium. There's huge lithium supply just down the road from the giga factory.

 

[Deleted User 234324]

Who's to say that in 5 years time, battery technology would still need lithium anyway. With the massive push towards EV and the announcement of several governments recently I think the tech will advance very quickly.

 

[Jokester]

And oil production is so squeaky clean, these sorts of arguments are just stupid.

Hardly, people should know that electric vehicles aren't the great saviour of the environment that they are made out to be.

Studies have shown the environmental break even point of a typical electric vehicle is about 100,000 miles when compared to a typical diesel.

Scientists are also now warning about the extra brake dust that will be created by heavier vehicles being the next major inner city health issue as well.

 

[Glaucus]

Hardly, people should know that electric vehicles aren't the great saviour of the environment that they are made out to be.

Studies have shown the environmental break even point of a typical electric vehicle is about 100,000 miles when compared to a typical diesel.

Scientists are also now warning about the extra brake dust that will be created by heavier vehicles being the next major inner city health issue as well.

Yes they are and no they havent, if you want to selecetively rate a minority of studies be it. But the vast majority show the total opposite. Nothing but CT arguments like your last few posts have all been.

Oh and lol how clueless can you be, EVs need brake change far less often than ice vehicles.

 

[Jokester]

Yes they are and no they havent, if you want to selecetively rate a minority of studies be it. But the vast majority show the total opposite. Nothing but CT arguments like your last few posts have all been.

Oh and lol how clueless can you be, EVs need brake change far less often than ice vehicles.

Sorry, but this isn't "CT" at all.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph240/lambilliotte2/

There's plenty of research that show EV's environmental benefit can actually be worse if the charging source is predominantly hydrocarbon based like it is in most countries, and only offering substantial gains where renewables make up the majority of power generation.

 

[b0rn2sk8]

Hardly, people should know that electric vehicles aren't the great saviour of the environment that they are made out to be.

Studies have shown the environmental break even point of a typical electric vehicle is about 100,000 miles when compared to a typical diesel.

Scientists are also now warning about the extra brake dust that will be created by heavier vehicles being the next major inner city health issue as well.

All of the above is complete and utter tosh.

EV only actually use the breaks in emergency situations or to correct a mistake. They slow down to a walking pace using the regenerative motor alone, you simply don't need them in day to day driving other than to take off the last new Mph. You can easily get well over 100k on a set of disks and pads on a Tesla and that is the eavest of all EV's...

Google EV one pedal driving.

I agree battery production is not all butterflies and flowers but lets me realistic here your average oil refinery uses as much electricity as a large town. Tesla have gone out of their way to run the Giga Factory from renewable energy. Oil production let alone consumption is far worse for the environment than battery production. Try reading a few articles that are not paid for by oil lobbing groups for a bit more of a balanced argument. Again go google.

 

[Del Lardo]

It seems to me we are taking the pollution from cars and just moving it somewhere else.

You mean taking the pollution out of cities where people breath the air and putting it out of the way of people and that's before you start looking at the increase in renewables like solar, wind and tide.

 

[Glaucus]

Sorry, but this isn't "CT" at all.

http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph240/lambilliotte2/

There's plenty of research that show EV's environmental benefit can actually be worse if the charging source is predominantly hydrocarbon based like it is in most countries, and only offering substantial gains where renewables make up the majority of power generation.

It is CT and you are talking utter rubbish.
You want to see how the local grid effects EVs then look at a decent uptown date report.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions

 

[Jokester]

It is CT and you are talking utter rubbish.
You want to see how the local grid effects EVs then look at a decent uptown date report.
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions

That backs up what I say - even the in US 1/3 of the population would produce less CO2 (only part of the overall environmental cost by the way), by driving a conventional vehicle. Do you think that's the same in China?

Also, one peddle driving can be done in a conventional car as well.